In Search of Lost Calm

Discussion in 'Ages 30-39' started by Thelongwayhome27, Sep 24, 2017.

  1. Thelongwayhome27

    Thelongwayhome27 Well-Known Member

    I had some urges today because of lack of sleep and some inner tension. I could really feel how I needed a release (and it felt like one of those really "legit" horny states). Luckily I was able to surf the wave. What helped was having a pretty clear "why" it's better not to do it then to do it.

    I'm pretty happy I may hang out with that girl soon. I hope she won't bail on me. On the other hand I am very proud of myself that I asked her. When I asked her I had this moment (right after) where I had a 200% clear conviction that this is exactly what I need to do.

    It's kind of hard to manage the expectations and I still see myself hoping for something sexual to happen, instead of looking at it as meeting a "friend". I'm also probably going to make mistakes (and I think I already made a minor one when I texted her again - in the way I texted her - I think I was a bit too "direct" and perhaps "cold" - but maybe this is also my inner critic, not sure.). But the important thing to remember for me is that no matter what happens this is the path for me. If I keep doing this, I will be more and more relaxed doing such things.

    @Pete McVries - Thanks for sharing those interesting statistics. I think that makes a lot of sense. I'm pretty sure people over value how fun/cool being single can be. I've herd at times guy friends who are in established couples say "Man if I was single today, I'd sure have a lot of fun.". Now, I'm sure it can be for some people. But it's probably a minority (as the numbers you bring show) and not to mention that even among these people I would think some have some pretty "bad quality" sexual happenings that don't really leave them fulfilled. This being said, I would put my money on the idea that the average single girl can probably have more sex then the average single guy (unless I'm wrong here).

    I kind of buy the idea that a minority of more or less single guys get a lot of more or less single girls. But I've read saying this is "sexist" o_O:rolleyes: ... But I think it makes sense. Some guys break that barrier of fear - get good at it (or they were "naturals") - and then they can "get girls". And since girls, even if feminism has progressed, still like the guy to take the initiative - it creates that effect. Many shy guys don't get anything and are stuck.

    Another similar study I have seen (but I don't remember the source) was saying how young (20s-30s) people today have less sex then this same age category 20 or 30 years ago. And one of the reasons was that people where actually more often in committed relationships in those days (hence more sex). Apart from this, what struck me when I read that article was how you would think people have so much more sex today (society being so "liberated" and "pro sexuality") - but my own personal perspective is that people are usually more socially anxious then 20 or 30 years ago and have more trouble interacting and are more isolated. On the other hand society is more "sexualized" - the idea of sex is present all around (ads, how people dress) but the actual thing is much rarer to find (especially good quality sex). It's kind of like a tease. I once read someone describe this as living in a society with a "diffused sexuality" (rather then a healthy natural one). But hopefully one can take in these facts and see how he can deal with this situations. I would also bet there is still good connection possible (physical or not physical) even nowadays, and that's what I would like to get better at building or finding.

    What I mean by the quote you picked here was that I sometimes have some envy (that maybe is misplaced) for the fact that single girls can have fun (but maybe I'm wrong). And I have jealousy of the guys who get those girls.

    But with a correction in my mindset, maybe I can let go some of that resentment which isn't helping my cause in any way - and in the end, be more comfortable with who I am and my own position right now. When I was thinking that I should try to see girls as more then just a chance for me to get some much desired and needed physical intimacy, to see them as potential friends (even if I don't get sex) and try to find girls that I genuinely connect with I felt like some of that resentment was melting away. Which made me feel like that would be a good mindset for me to adopt.
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2020
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  2. TrueSelf

    TrueSelf Active Member

    Wow the recent discussion in your journal has been really interesting to me and has made me remember some things about my own history (or lack there of) with women.

    Firstly, I agree with your theory about how early experiences stick with us and can continue to shape our opinion of ourselves. In my case growing up my friends were all much more popular with girls than I was. A couple instances stuck with me where I though a girl might be interested in me but was actually interested in one of my friends - brutal... I think this caused me to develop the mindset that girls will always chose other dudes over myself. I carried this view about myself for many years even through College. I remember my senior year I went to a party and there were several girls there. I drank quite a bit and can't remember many details aside from a conversation with a friend the next day. He said something along the lines of the girls being into me - huh?, me? Who knows if this was actually the case (maybe he was just trying to be nice or something) or not but I think it goes to show how much early experience can color the lenses through which we view situations.

    Second, I think your currently plan is a good one. Focus on connecting with women that you find interesting. Hopefully relationships and eventually sex will follow. Also be willing to take risks and be honest with your feelings towards people you are interested in.

    Third, I think that when a girl is really interested she will make things easy for you. Meaning that she won't reject you if you are not the "smoothest" dude (or whatever). I know this was the case with my wife.
  3. Thelongwayhome27

    Thelongwayhome27 Well-Known Member

    Day 6

    I think a huge transformation is happening with me. I'm finally starting to connect with people more deeply. I'm finally slowly starting to be able to speak from my heart. To express myself. It's intense. I may also be slowly going hypomanic and maybe this is all "fake". Low moods surely will follow, doubt again and depression. But maybe there is some truth "here" too. So let's put a little note.

    I hope to post better and more concrete updates soon but I wanted to share my current mindset.

    I will never under estimate the incredibly healing support I have found on here and I am grateful for each person here that has truly helped me.

    A good week to all my fellow rebooters ! Keep it up :)

    @TrueSelf - Thank you for your comment above. I really appreciate it and the things you share and I relate to a lot of it personally (the high school stuff, especially my friend getting a girl I liked). I hope to reply better. The "friend angle" I have worked with so far has been proven helpful for me ! I haven't gotten any sex lol but things are going in the right direction !
  4. Thelongwayhome27

    Thelongwayhome27 Well-Known Member

    Day 0

    I had a reset incident yesterday. But most of my positive energy is still here with me. At least I was clean for 6 days prior and I know that I could have reseted earlier with my current lifestyle. I have to focus on addressing the elements in my life that are keeping me in this place. I know a few things I have to get going on, beyond only my social fears. I should also get back to better routine but I have a secret fear that that may take away some of my current "inspiration". I guess a good idea could be to get back to better routine but not go full military OCD style discipline either. To try to find some middle ground in this respect.

    Speaking of social anxiety I think this is a pretty good video about it. It's very candid I find.

    Disclaimer : Since he mentions drugs a few times as having helped him I felt like specifying that I don't necessarily endorse what he says about drug usage. Not that I don't think that can't work for some, but it's important not to be naïve about the potential pitfalls of drug usage.
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2020
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  5. Thelongwayhome27

    Thelongwayhome27 Well-Known Member

    Day 1

    I had some more addictive behavior yesterday and was MO'ing to some P-Subs in a pretty binge like compulsive sort of way.

    I managed to snap out of it at some point and the rest of my day was more balanced.

    I don't like to start MO'ing and not having an O. So in the evening, before bed, I went for a "healthy MO". I think it wasn't a bad choice because prior to it I had thoughts of going back into the P-subs binge thing. Which could have turned into another binge deep into the night.

    Observing the MO was interesting. It was short and it felt pretty good. It sure feels healthier then an edge binge. When I go for a binge I edge for a long time and the pleasure is in the edging. Which is why I go for long sessions. Many times the actual O isn't even good. There was a time when I had long binges and the O was pretty intense as well, but with abuse I think the effect is that the O becomes worst and worst after a binge. It's just this numb thing. The absolute worst is when the O happens with a semi-flaccid (which has happened a few times and it is quite worrisome).

    But the O at the end of the short MO I had last night was pleasurable. I think that could be one characteristic of a "healthy MO" - the O feels good and is the best part of the whole thing.
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  6. Thelongwayhome27

    Thelongwayhome27 Well-Known Member

    Day 2

    No P or MO yesterday.

    Right now I'm considering the idea to try to get on a "committed streak" (something I haven't done for a while) but to clearly allow MO. I feel pretty good about the MO I did 2 days ago. But I'm not sure yet if I'm ready to re commit to a streak. I'm thinking about it. In the meantime I'm gonna try to take every day as it comes and not watch P. And for MO, I'll try to get 2 days clean between healthy MO's sessions. This may not work, but we'll see. Maybe I'll give updates on this.

    I had a small insight regarding facing our fears. It's essential to be able to identify the right level of "challenge" (of step out of our comfort zone). The right one is ideally the one you can handle but that will still be a little stressful. Say like 3 on 10 stress. But not like 8 on 10. You go for 8 on 10 it's harder to stay present with the fear and not get overwhelmed. I've really seen how the inner critic bombards me after taking some chances, especially socially. It's almost like I'm hallucinating. I'm mind reading a lot. Often times there is great fear of negative judgement. But if I look at this objectively, I don't know for sure. It could well be the good old critic telling distorting my reality. Same for when I think I'm being well perceived (rarer). The ideal is to calm down the emotions somehow and try to have the mind of a detective. To be Sherlock Holmes about all that. To remember the "maybe's" of our assumptions and to look for facts. Sometimes we can ask.

    But this is the insight I had in mind : if we don't get the result we're hoping for we're gonna experience a negative emotion. It's important to try to not blame ourselves (inner critic) or to project the blame on the other (resentment, "they are all rotten! I knew it!"). Best thing is to congratulate ourselves for having taken a step out of our comfort zone, in accordance with what we are chasing (dreams) and to learn to be more detached from the result. Every time we do this is a new occasion.

    I took one chance a few days ago and I think I may have been a bit over enthusiastic on that one. I had taken a few chances right before which gave me the results I was looking for and in that "drunken" state I went for some more crazier stuff (have to be careful with this tendency). But despite feeling bad about it and I could see my inner critic fire up with all these bad thoughts (what the person must have thought of me) - I was able to defend myself to some degree with the self belief I have been building from within. And what helps to not feel the sting of that "rejection" ? To try some more and get some positive results. To keep trying. To persist. I tried the same "move" with some other persons, and it worked. I got the result I wanted. All of a sudden I felt less ashamed about the one that didn't work. So it works with some and with some not. It's all about not taking it personal. A rejection should not even be taken personal. Ideally. It didn't click. Ok, fair enough. You're right. Let's keep going. The more we try this, the more we become detached about it and clear headed. We also hone the skills along the way.

    Having the inner belief is essential (which I think comes from self acceptance and self kindness and self observation/understanding). But the inner belief permits us to take the little leaps of faiths and handle the outcomes. And as we keep doing this, we will inevitably start getting the results, sometimes, that we hope for. We get that encouragement, that positive mirroring. Getting that mirroring reinforces our inner self belief, confirms it, and it allows us to brush off rejection much more easily. Finally, for the encouragement and the positive mirroring to be powerful it's important to be ourselves, whatever that means, in those challenges. Ourselves within respect to the context. Because if we get positive mirroring while being totally someone else it doesn't really help or fill that hole inside. That's basically "people pleaser nice guy" territory. Gaging what it means to be ourselves within a context is also a skill to develop. It's okay to wear a mask in certain moments I suppose - as long as the mask fits us properly and we control the mask and put it on for the right reasons. This is like saying that say you feel bad but a collogue asks you casually "hey, how are you" in a small chat way, you're not gonna say "Listen I'm doing really bad man". No you wear a kind of mask in this context it's normal.
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  7. Thelongwayhome27

    Thelongwayhome27 Well-Known Member

    Day 3

    No PMO yesterday. Maybe I'll MO today. I do sense some urges already ...

    Because of Covid and isolation I have discovered (or maybe more or less rediscovered) the potential good sides of social media. Though there are many many pitfalls there I think one who is already isolated may very well be throwing the baby with the bathwater if he completely cuts himself off social media.

    Especially for shy or introverted individuals, social media can be a place where you can try being yourself a little more. It's easier then in real life. But here too it's very important to go at it gradually. Don't be like the person who never posted anything and then all at once post the most daring and personal thing. It also serves as a great place to chat to people in a healthy way. Again if one is capable of doing it in a healthy way.

    But reaching out to someone on social media could be a step forward. If it's not anonymous it can definitely count as a step out of one's comfort zone.

    But then be careful with the addictive potential of it and also we need to remember that it's important to find solace alone as well.

    I'll also say that this here place has been great practice for me to learn how to express myself more authentically on social media. It gave me better self esteem but it also allowed me to hone some skills about proper communication.
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2020
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  8. NewStart19

    NewStart19 Well-Known Member


    Sorry for not posting here until now. I have been--and still am--suffering from some heavy brain fog, so I am not all that willing to post. But I want to be here on the forums and give some support to others.

    One question (and forgive me if you made this clear somewhere earlier in your topic): can you MO to just sensation? Just curious.

    Also, I am glad to hear that you are finding some value in social media. I myself removed it from my life about 2.5 years ago (although all I was using was Facebook; no Instagram, Snapchat, Twitter, etc.), and haven't looked back since. But even with that lifestyle change, I know there are benefits to using these services. This is not meant to dissuade you, and I hope you continue to use it in an intelligent and healthy manner, but I definitely recommend watching the Netflix documentary The Social Dilemma. Yes it can be addictive, but that's not all. There are other aspects of the brain that it takes advantage of, and I just hope you are aware of all this so you can better navigate the waters of healthy use.

    P.S. I noticed you updated your signature. See you someday at the peak.

    Take care
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2020
  9. Shady

    Shady Active Member

    Concerning social media, I reduced the frequency of me checking social media to once a week.
    I had noticed that whenever I checked my social media, I felt bad and eventually I would relapse.
    When I made that change of checking them only once a week, I felt much better and I held my streak.
    The whole point is to understand yourself. I know the least thing upsets me and when I get upset I go check P and eventually I would MO.
    I tried to be stronger and not get easily upset, but I just couldn't, so I did the next big thing. I stayed away from anything that upsets me.

    If you can manage social media well and only see the good in there, then by all means go ahead. You're much stronger than I am.

    Here's to the day you will break your record.
  10. Thelongwayhome27

    Thelongwayhome27 Well-Known Member

    Day 4

    Finally I did not MO yesterday. No P either. Urges were manageable. I occupied myself with others things that excited me and I did not feel the need to PMO or MO. I might MO today. Hopefully I can stay off P.

    I think one key realization I had regarding my problem with social anxiety, which has plagued me since I was around 13, was not only that one has to expose himself to the feared situations (more precisely to tackle the fears holding him/her back) which I had known for a while - BUT that one must actually learn to look for that feeling of fear and discomfort and feel comfortable with it. Even more, to learn to actually enjoy it. To look for it. To hunt it. To actually see it as the goal. As the success itself. This is not my idea by any way, but I discovered it when I learned about "Rejection Therapy" (2 years ago). Now, it's a slow process. But I think this "angle" of looking at it was a great insight for me to reach. The key seemed to be to pick the right challenges, the right level of discomfort. And here is where self acceptance plays a key role because if we pick a challenge that for others would be "insignificant" (or even a mockery), we know that for us it isn't. Similarly knowing our own limits helps with not picking a challenge that is too overwhelming. When I first found out about rejection therapy I was on a good momentum (spring 2018) and I immediately got excited and starting trying things out. Then I had phases when I stopped completely. I never put pressure on myself to take a 100 day rejection therapy challenge (as some advise). I went my rhythm. But I think it has been key and I always think about this principle. To understand that I need to learn to not only break my fears, slowly, but to learn that that feeling of discomfort is good. Lately, because I think I am on a pretty good momentum socially speaking, I have been naturally undertaking some challenges like these. And one thing I'm seeing is that not only do I get better at gaging the right challenges for me (what level I am at right now) but also how the more I do it (especially when choosing the right ones) the more I starts seeing all these other challenges. Of all sorts. It's very creative. To the point that I note them down somewhere so I don't forget them. I can also see how, at least for me, taking on such challenges comes with mood instability (ups and downs) - but if I take the "right" ones the mood instability is manageable and I grow in strength I think. That's also why I note them down instead of doing them when I'm excited. I don't want to go crazy and do to many at once. I think it's good to step out of my comfort zone but it's also important to take the time to regulate myself and find my center again. I have to trust that I will find my way back to the courage of taking whatever challenge seemed like a good idea at a moment. There are always more "sometimes" though to complicate matters. Sometimes to take a challenge right then and there is just the thing to do ! It's truly a learning process.

    I don't think this is the only thing that is required for healing from social anxiety. I have herd that such an effect, such a boost of confidence, dies down soon enough. I think this has to be coupled with other kinds of inner work (self understanding, self love, self acceptance, self forgiveness, etc.). - but I think it can play an important role as well however. It can help foster that courage to go beyond fear to get what we would desire or need. More importantly it truly serves as proper therapy for those that have a strong fear of what people think of them, which was always one of the root issues with my own social anxiety.
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2020
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  11. Thelongwayhome27

    Thelongwayhome27 Well-Known Member

    This is my 1000th post on this forum hooray ! :)

    The saying "Change happens when the pain of staying the same is greater than the pain of change" is usually attributed to Tony Robbins.

    I had herd it too from a life coach I briefly worked with a few years ago. It sure makes a lot of sense.

    I think it's essentially true. I would think though there are many other factors at work. Pain alone without any kind of understanding will not get me forward.

    But now that I look back in my recent months I can see a moment when perhaps the pain really stung hard. Big time. And made a difference.

    It was this last summer and I was on my personal all time best streak. I think I was around day 50 or so when this occurred. I randomly and unexpecadly met by chance a girl I knew from a while back, an old acquaintance, and when I met her I was pretty damn nervous and awkward. Yet, for the past 2 months or so I had done all in my power to be responsible for myself and be as disciplined as I can. I could not have done much more on the "discipline and health" front of things. And yet I met this girl by surprise and I was socially anxious when I met her. Truth be told, I was not extremely socially anxious, but just not where I want to be. Not where I think I can be or at least get to. Why is it that when I'm alone I am so comfortable and clear headed but when I meet a girl I am interested in I become so anxious and clumsy and awkward and unable to act with relaxation and confidence ? Unable to let her see who I am. Why is it that I had done so many efforts, sacrificed so much immediate gratification, and yet still found myself socially anxious in that situation ? Should I not be much more confident after so much good work ? Those are the questions and the pain I took back home with me that day. And I've had a few more "failures" (my goals not being reached) during this summer when I was on that streak, one even more painful or challenging then this one. Luckily, overall, I had already reached sufficient capacity to forgive myself so that I was able to process these events (whereas a past version of me would have beat myself up much more). But, I am sure that such elements contributed to the erosion of my "effort" and to the fact that I ended up relapsing after 63 days hardmode clean.

    So the point is that this pain, these questions, this frustration - especially combined with the further added on pain of a new relapse that followed - forced me to really evaluate what I was still doing wrong. What do I have to add, beyond the discipline and the sacrifice of immediate gratification, so that I reach the life I want to live. So that I can reach for my dreams ? Yes, at that time, part of me lost faith in staying clean for I could not get what I was longing for in my heart.

    And eventually I think, somehow, this pain forced me to understand that I was not working enough on tackling my fears. Despite my discipline.

    So - now - I still think discipline is essential. But I think that I learned I need to constantly tackle my fears, on top of that discipline. If I tackle my fears, not only will it further reinforce my resolve to stay clean, but it will also make it so that at day whatever, when I meet a girl I know by chance, I'll be much more ready. Much more.

    So I guess the saying does make sense : "Change happens when the pain of staying the same is greater than the pain of change".

    But it's a gradual and correct understanding and honest effort (probably brought on by past pain) that bring us to the point of experiencing new pains - which in turn are opportunities to further try to correct our strategy.

    The reason I was still socially anxious when I met that girl is because I have not yet tackled certain fears. The pain of tackling those fears (change) is/was still greater then the pain that not tackling them is costing me. Yet the pain that resulted from that day was a great motivator in understanding what I am/was still not doing correctly and most of all as motivation to take on this other pain, the pain of change. So that I keep striving for the day when I'll be better able to let a girl I have an interest in see who I think I am, when fear isn't holding me back as much. That's the freedom I'm looking for.
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2020
  12. Pete McVries

    Pete McVries Well-Known Member

    A friend once told me to love my diagnoses. What she meant by it was, I think, to forgive myself if I feel fear in social situations or if I feel uneasy in a group of people I didn't know beforehand. It's another way of saying "be your friend" like you have in your signature. But with the addition that the socially anxious side of yours (or mine) is as much part of the real you, like the confident you that you are able to show when you feel good. As long as you do not let anxiety take over control most of the time, it is totally ok. And this way, it is much easier to forgive yourself, if you acted "weird" or thought to do so.

    Moreover, I wanted to comment on having a crisis or not being able to continue recovery properly. As you know, I had been clinically depressed for three years. And in these years, I was not able to reboot or improve my mental health to a greater degree until suddenly the day came where the fog started dwindling. Looking back, I cannot tell you if there was anything that I could have done differently to have sped up the process. Sometimes, I think, it just takes time until one is able to continue walking the path of recovery again. In the time of experiencing a crisis it is sometimes simply impossible to force recovery and all you can do is remaining patient. Having experienced it firsthand helps, I guess, to not act out too crazily, or lose hope in the future when you experience times of depression or mood swings. Because, I'm quite sure that I will experience something like another depression in my lifetime. But then again, I'm also confident that I'm much better equipped to steer my way through it by being patient (with myself) and focus on the basics that my well-being benefits from. It's super easy to destroy the gym and feel like the second coming of the incredible Hulk if you are well-rested and in great shape. But if you are not, or if you feel like the exact opposite, then it is important to be mindful about it and not be too hard on yourself in that moment and on some days just be content with the fact that you moved your depressed ass to the gym for five minutes because that was all you were able to do in that moment.
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  13. Thelongwayhome27

    Thelongwayhome27 Well-Known Member

    Day 10

    I ended up MOing yesterday. @NewStart19 - sorry for only replying now but no I was not totally able to MO only to sensation. I had to use a bit of fantasy. But I kept it vanilla. But maybe this is ok ? I remember when I started MOing (before P) I was using fantasy even then. Maybe as long as the fantasy is something natural or real life like it isn't too bad ? Especially combined with a soft grip and stuff like that. It could even resemble actual penetration and in a certain way as close as one could get to rewiring if he does not have a partner (realistic fantasy with soft grip).

    Things have been moving fast for me lately. I'm still doing pretty well. I haven't had as much time to be on here.

    Yesterday I was close to going on P subs as I was feeling really horny. I had not MOed since "Day 1". When I really felt that pull get strong I decided to go for that MO I mentioned.

    So far so good.

    I feel like I have a lot of energy lately, a lot of creativity. There seems to be some good clarity as well but it comes with a certain price : it's harder to sleep ! However there are moments of deep calm and I hope and think that I am in control.

    @Pete McVries - Thank you for your post above. It's spot on. Spot on. I have nothing to add to that :)

    @Shady - Thank you, I really appreciated that. I think you are very strong as well. More then you think.
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2020 at 10:16 AM
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  14. Living

    Living Well-Known Member

    I think the way you overanalize the masturbation to the extent that it 'could resemble actual penetration' is probably worse for you than the fact that you used a bit of fantasy. We can disagree on the question if masturbation is good for you or not, but when you do do it isn't going to help you when you make such a big deal out of it. In the past I too have thought about the fact that I should MO only to sensation, but honestly I don't know if I can even do that. I'm a guy with a great imagination and while tantric sex sounds like fun, I'm pretty good making up fantasies and I actually do enjoy them while I masturbate. Yeah, the burdens of a creative person...

    And @Pete McVries is indeed spot on in both points. If I could give that post two likes I would;) When you wrote about that the girl was unable to see who you were I was thinking something similar as Pete. At least right now you do have social anxiety and so this is part of who you are at the moment. Just as with the fantasy: don't beat yourself up over it. You might not like this part of you, but it's still a part of you. Every person in the world has things they don't like about themselves. Telling yourself this is not part of you because it's something you don't like is not going to help you. As someone who is struggling with social anxiety himself I know that not accepting your social anxiety only makes things worse. It will just make you anxious about anxiety.

    As for Pete's second point: totally agree with that too. The reason something goes well is often a very complex combination of factors and that's hard to get a grip on. Since you read my journal you know that sometimes after a tough period I can just quit without any real effort for a long period of time. The fact that it costs so little effort makes it all the more frustrating by the way. I like to see the way I deal with issues not in absolute terms, but rather as a matter of chances. My running, meditations, three good things, being open towards people...those aren't things that will keep away from porn on their own. However, they are factors that I know have a positive influence on how I feel and in that sense increase my chances of living the live I value. But even if I do these things I will have to accept that sometimes the odds are against me and I can still slip back into unwanted behaviour. And that's something you can't always blame on yourself. You can't control all the factors that lead to an undesired result.
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  15. Thelongwayhome27

    Thelongwayhome27 Well-Known Member

    Personally I disagree with the concept that using fantasy is necessarily bad.

    Also, I was only analyzing it in such a way for explanatory reasons on here (to share my experience).

    I think MO is far from being an ideal solution (which should be a loving partner and intimacy) however I think it may be something worth exploring for a single person (as long as he puts efforts in fixing his life).
  16. Doper

    Doper Well-Known Member

    While I have been reasonably productive, I just pissed away closing in on 3 years now getting drunk a lot and relapsing. Some of that time I was well cured and things were going good but I never got to the point of actually getting over the wall into another totally new life, which is what I've been shooting for. Before that, I had an issue that I felt made getting to the new life insurmountable. But that's been over for a while. When you have (what you feel are) insurmountable problems, drugs as a tool to keep you sane IMO, can be an effective tool. Getting over that insurmountable problem is the proudest I've ever been of myself, I really don't know how I was able to accomplish it. And I was drinking heavily the whole time. It was an effective tool for the time, but it isn't now, it is a barrier to entry to a better life. This seems to be a common occurrence. The vast majority of drunks stop by themselves. They used it as a coping tool for a problem, and then once the problem is over, stop. But the problem is using the tool when it's no longer effective, and is now just destructive. (...I'm not saying porn is a good coping tool. Hangovers last a couple days, PIED lasts several months after cessation)

    Like others have mentioned, when you get on a good run, it's the easiest shit in the world. I don't have to try at all, it's autopilot. I find the good runs are almost always when you make it your number one priority, and you don't have much else going on. If you are draining your limited mental/emotional energy on some other project, even if you don't feel much stress, it's there because withdrawing from a drug causes lots of it. Stress builds to a certain point and you relapse. You have to be EXTREMELY easy on yourself when you're trying to resolve an addiction. I think a lot of us may be far harder on ourselves than the general public. The way you write, Longwayhome, it looks like it might be tiring being in that noggin of yours. It's tiring being in mine. I beat myself down relentlessly, and set really high bars, and I put such a high importance on success, that just living in that type of mental environment causes me at some point (...quite often) to go back to the nice warm comfort of my drugs of choice, just to hit the off switch for a bit. Because I simply can't handle it. And funny enough, in doing so, I fail at life. If I were easier on myself, and not set high bars, I'd likely accomplish a lot more. But I really don't know how to do that. It's funny that platitudes like "take it easy","be easy on yourself", or whatnot, sound easy, but it's actually changing your entire personality and structure of your brain.....So the only path I know of is to just make dealing with the addiction the #1 priority.

    Luckily I have found I can pair heavy weightloss/workout with NO PMO as it doesn't drain you emotionally, just physically. My problem is when I've succeeded at it, and it is no longer the priority and I go on to something else, I'll settle back into using porn, drugs and food to regulate my emotions of the stresses of life. And now I'm again, a fat, drunk, antisocial porn weirdo. This would not be a big problem if we all lived to be a thousand, but digging yourself out of PIED or losing 40 pounds takes many months of IT BEING THE #1 PRIORITY. I've cured PIED and lost weight so many goddamn times, I've probably lost 250 pounds in my life and never been over 40 pounds overweight. This has taken up a huge amount of time. So it's of utmost importance to fully extinguish the problems so you don't have to keep spending huge amounts of time on them every several months in perpetuity. I can drop weight and get on streaks, but the forever task is another thing altogether. For me, it may be that I have to totally change the way I see the world....doesn't that sound uncomfortable.

    One problem that may be common here is not thinking about getting away from addiction as a major accomplishment. I put all my other benchmarks of success on one spectrum, and addiction quashing is somewhere else altogether. For us, it's would be the biggest accomplishment, because it will pay mega dividends in every other aspect of our lives. For me, it's literally the only thing that matters. More than a free 6 figures dropping in my lap (I won't say If I just went hard mode till '21, and lost 20 pounds by then, from what I've already accomplished this year, it'd be a pretty good year. Even if all I did other than that was watch daytime television and other total loser shit. But if I kept rippin em off to Lana till then...uh, not so good....and I wouldn't be proud of anything else I did all year.
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2020 at 1:03 PM
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  17. Shady

    Shady Active Member

    @Thelongwayhome27 I believe relying on fantasy is not a really good idea. I'm not even sure MO is a good idea. If you rely on it, you might lose the desire to look for the real thing and the fact that you're asking if MO on fantasy is OK means that you're not convinced yourself.
    But if the pull towards P is uncontrollable and P relapse is inevitable, then MO is the lesser evil, I guess.

    Of course you have a lot of energy. You just relapsed.

    Keep going. Stay strong. You can do this.
    Thelongwayhome27 likes this.
  18. Bilbo Baggins

    Bilbo Baggins Active Member

    Great post. A lot of what you wrote applies to me: because of the COVID, I haven’t worked a lot this year. I started my reboot in April, at the beginning of the lockdown. Even though I have accomplished a couple of things in the last months, I haven’t been very active professionally, so rebooting has been my number one priority this year. I think it was a good context to start my reboot, as I could focus on it more than anything else. I totally agree when you say we should see this as an accomplishment. Honestly, if I could be granted a wish right now, I would not ask to be rich, famous, handsome or to have a family or anything else: I would ask to be cured from PIED. So for me, anybody who recovers from it has accomplished a tremendous thing. For me, right now, it really is my main goal. And as I said, the context is good: I am not under a lot of stress since I only work part time for now, and I don’t meet a lot of people because of lockdown, which gives me time on my own to try to fix myself without having to feel like shit each time I ‘’fail’’ in social situations. But our lives will get back to normal sooner or later, when the pandemic gets under control. Then we will have to keep seeing our reboot as a priority in our lives, despite being busy with work and all the rest.
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  19. Thelongwayhome27

    Thelongwayhome27 Well-Known Member

    Hey there guys, just wanted to do a quick check in to say I have not PMOed or MOed since last time I posted. I wish you all the best.

    Sorry not to reply I haven't had time to read latest posts here.
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  20. Rengaw

    Rengaw Will log on every other week from 13/10/2016


    I'm seeing you're crawling in circles and I don't like it. I'm not here to feel sorry for you either, but I would like to suggest a thing or two.
    To me it is very apparant you are not able to deal with your porn or masturbation issues on your own, but I haven't seen anyone reffering to help. So allow me to share something that has helped me.

    I've been going meetings, so called Sex and Love addicts anonymous, a group of gentlemen with similar issues. It's something like AA and it works splendidly. I am not saying this is a magic pill that cures you within weeks. This is a place where you can share about your experiences, feelings and struggles and you can find a coach that is further down the road - of recovery! - to guide you through the process.

    Another suggestion is to call your doctor/GP and get involved in an rehab program. This is actually not about going to a clinic, it's a seeing a licensed therapist a few hours a week that helps you dig through the pile of dung. Usually this has more pressure to it, but it's for the short run( 1 or 2 years max).

    Honestly, I am not forcing you to make a decision to pick either - you can choose none or both too. All I am seeing is a never endless struggle that won;t change with some allowing outside (f)actors.

    The website for meetings is The program is entirely free (based on donations)
    Getting into rehab isn't free but depends on where you live. I had to pay a few hundred euro(which is still cheap). Your doctor can tell you more I think.

    The cards are yours, I hope you can pick a decent one to play.
    Be seeing you!
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