Horton's Journal: 43 and long, slow recovery - PIED and PE

Discussion in 'Ages 40+' started by Horton, Apr 25, 2015.

  1. RebornAgain

    RebornAgain Beating my addiction one day at a time.. Staff Member

    Stick with it Horton! You're doing the right things and great things.
     
  2. Horton

    Horton Member

    ED this morning. We started to screw around, very playful and fun. It got the tiniest bit chubby, but I could just tell I was going to lose it, and I did. So basically near-total non-functioning.

    In case anyone was under any delusions that I was better.
     
  3. RebornAgain

    RebornAgain Beating my addiction one day at a time.. Staff Member

    Non linear, brother. Should be gradual trend upward as time goes on. With peaks and valleys in between.
     
  4. 40New30

    40New30 Keep going

    Less orgasms may help things move along faster.
     
  5. Horton

    Horton Member

    Heh I'm way past worrying about O frequency at this point. It is what it is.... ;-)

    Haven't tried anything since that ED episode. Partially afraid I'm sure.
     
  6. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    You've done your due diligence about breaking the P addiction. What's else might be holding you back? P addiction is a by-product of other things, imo. So, any ideas on what that might be?
     
  7. So you still get scared after a failure? I'm the exact same way. Doesn't matter if I was successful five times in a row before that. That failure will destroy whatever confidence and hope I'd built up.
     
  8. Horton

    Horton Member

    There's a lot we don't actually know about PIED, and a lot of mythology on these boards without any science behind them. Because something worked for Gabe, or for someone else posting, that doesn't mean it works for everyone. I spent basically 20 years using M as almost my only way to reach O. Then used P daily for like 8 or so years, give or take. Maybe it just takes a long time to heal. I honestly don't know and no one does. I still really wonder if without ED drugs if anything would work at all for me....I mean yeah sometimes it does, but still. PIED can take a long, long time to recover from is all I can say.

    Yes, I still get scared after a failure and it definitely affects me a lot. Doesn't matter if I have success recently with drugs, or even the rare case when something happens without drugs. One episode of ED and it's almost like I'm back to the start, as far as how I feel.
     
  9. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    True. But, there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that is highly helpful. Also, the insights gleaned by fellow addicts as they heal is invaluable. We take what's useful and discard that which is not. Anyway, I hear your frustration. I've been on that side of the sheets when the pecker wouldn't work and have felt the devastation afterward. I'd be lying if I said that I didn't still harbor my own fear when having sex with my wife. Once a man has felt the deep defeat of not being able to perform it is a tall order to come back from that.

    But, Horton, you ARE young. You've had a rough go of it, but look at the work you've done. Holy shit, you are a hero to me and to many on this board. You gave up PMO, MO, and really put so much of your life in order. It's like losing weight. The first bit comes off fairly easy once we're committed, but those last few pounds...grrr, they can be a bitch. You are at the last few pound stage, even though I'm sure it doesn't feel like it.

    I know this has been mentioned before, but what about forgoing the ED meds altogether. Your body now has an expectation to these things. So, when you aren't under the influence of them your chemistry is confused, don't you think? There will still be failures, because this journey is fraught with them. But, you know that and you've already shown how intrepid you are.

    Getting back to the science vs myth thing. Sure, there's a lot that isn't known and I'm sure lots of people create theories here to fit whatever they want to happen. But, because there is a lot we don't know we have to keep our mind open, not just for change, but for revolution within us. Not long ago I listened to a podcast on NPR. It was about this elderly woman in China who had contracted breast cancer. Her family, who lived mostly in the States, decided they wouldn't tell her that she was dying, because what good would it do? Old granny fooled them all and lived another 18 years; eventually dying of something else. She felt healthy and therefore she remained healthy. Yeah, there is a lot we don't know, and so I personally think there is great power in proceeding as though we can become completely healed, better than before.

    I write this because I sense you throwing your hands up. Horton, we are only as strong as each other. People are getting healed here. Your recovery is important to all of us. Keep the torch burning!
     
  10. 40New30

    40New30 Keep going

    My vote would be for continuing the ED meds but severely limiting O, as I've seen this work for a lot of guys in the rewiring stages. Personally I have felt the strong effects of O during recovery...sometimes they bring back insomnia, headaches, and loss of libido.

    It's not the orgasm that is producing these symptoms, it is the orgasm exploding across those interwoven M and P circuits because they have been wired together for years and years. They need a real rest for some guys.

    I have personally found no ill effect from having sex without orgasm, which is why I recommend it. It also allows the brain to rewire to a real woman, if you go off the ED pills now you may have less of those opportunities.
     
  11. RebornAgain

    RebornAgain Beating my addiction one day at a time.. Staff Member

    I 100% agree with 40New30 in this situation. I'd love to hear form Horton after a couple months of no orgasm sex or less orgasms and see what happens.

    Continuous orgasms means your body doesn't have time to recover. And fix those circuits that have been abused from PMO and porn.
     
  12. 40New30

    40New30 Keep going

    I think one of the problems that Horton is dealing with in addition to PIED is PE. And, be doesn't want to be in a sexless relationship for a long period of time. There are drugs he can take for PE...but most of them will contribute to further ED.

    Horton, have you tried 5 HTP, tryptophan, or phenibut? Or low dose SSRI? Tramadol? They can all be really strong and come with side effects.

    Yoga and meditation are completely work too, over time. When you have PE your nerves are in sympathetic dominance, anything to calm the nervous system will work to cure it.

    Cold showers, vigorous exercise, these also work. Drinking caffiene should be off the table completely with PE. I believe Horton is a pretty avid runner. If the no O thing won't work unless he has to have control over his ejaculations.

    I'm in a world of DE right now, so having sex and not O'ing is easy, if I had PE, well, I'm not sure what I would do. Hellish combination for a reboot. Marijuana can work for some, but is of course illegal.

    It's a pickle.
     
  13. Nomadic

    Nomadic Member

    I deal with PE a lot as well. It's rarely a 30 second thing but at times it feels like it could be. If I haven't had sex for say 5 days or so, some positions make me want to O very quick. I'll change to missionary...a position I can last longer at. What helps me to last is keeping my eyes focused on on her face and kissing (looking down at me thrusting or a very attractive part of hers makes me O faster). And I vary the pace as well.

    Strangely when I was Mr. PMO and using ED drugs I had DE instead most of the time.
     
  14. Horton

    Horton Member

    I almost hate to say this because it's not totally gone, but my PE is under way better control than it used to be. At least 80% of the time I'm able to have enough control to hold off until she finishes. It's fairly rare that I cannot any more. Sometimes she can finish pretty quick so I don't have to last long anyway, but once she gets hers, then I don't have PE any more ;-)

    No other new progress. Erections with drugs work. Without, it's iffy.
     
  15. 40New30

    40New30 Keep going

    Dude, that's awesome progress.
     
  16. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    Fantastic!
     
  17. Horton

    Horton Member

    Thanks guys.

    To be clear, I still have to pace things to keep the PE under control - it's not like I can just do whatever I want. But I'm able to at least through slow movements and pacing get my gf where she needs to be.

    Example, last night: It's been 48 hrs since I took some Viagra and 72 since Cialis, so not sure if I still have those in my system or not. I always feel like they linger a long time with me. Anyway got hard messing around and got on top, and was able to move slowly and deliberately and get her off. Then we crashed and went to bed. :)
     
  18. That's awesome! You seem to be in a much better place these days. I couldn't be happier for you. Would you say that you're a believer now that you could be fully cured at some point?
     
  19. Horton

    Horton Member

    Interesting question...and I think at least right now the answer is still no. Not fully cured, and probably not even somewhat.

    I still wonder if the times when I'm not using drugs but get erections are just from "leftover" drugs in my system. This week it was just 48 hours. Sometimes it's been maybe 4-5 days. But I feel like much longer than that, and things just wouldn't work at all. I guess I honestly don't know at this point because I haven't tried.

    But I still think the damage is permanent. Even though function is improving due to meds, and maybe even sometimes without them, I can just feel there's something not right. It's hard to explain, but I know that things are still very far from normal, and in many ways not better than the start.

    So....I think the answer is that I still believe I'll never be fully cured. I can't even say how far along I really am right now since I use the meds more often than not.
     
  20. 40New30

    40New30 Keep going

    There are no scientific studies to support the theory that behavioral addiction brain changes are permanent, but there are lots of studies and anecdotal reports to the contrary. Have you read Doidge's book?
     

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