Horton's Journal: 43 and long, slow recovery - PIED and PE

Discussion in 'Ages 40+' started by Horton, Apr 25, 2015.

  1. Horton

    Horton Member

    Ok....after several months of working a reboot / rewire, a process that is going very slowly for me (which as an "older guy" it supposedly shouldn't be), I want to get my story on here, first to get some input from more experienced people about how things are going, and second to start journaling things as they happen, as there is a lot of various activity that may or may not be instructive for me or others.

    Short Summary of My Story

    I am a lifelong MO guy, having been in a long marriage with a woman with a low sex drive, and discovered PMO somewhere around 2005-6. I PMO'd daily probably since then. I recently got divorced, and then met a great new woman and it was then that I discovered I had PIED. Have been trying to reboot since Dec 2014 (so about 4 months now) and while I'm having no trouble at all as far as relapses or temptations for porn, the ED issues are still a major problem, along with PE. I'm getting frustrated and I worry how much patience my awesome new girlfriend is going to have for this reboot which seems to be taking a long, long time.

    Background / History

    Like any teenager, I discovered the joys of MO and then indulged in those joys frequently. As a teen it was mainly Playboy and Skinemax I guess. I used to set my alarm for the middle of the night to watch some of the movies.... I also had an active sex life in high school (oddly my best success with women was in high school), so it was all good. In college I had less actual sex and more MO, which I guess would have been either Playboy or just imagination. In my early 20s I met my wife, who was raised in such a way that she sort of feared sex, and either due to that or in addition to that had a low libido. So I got into what was pretty much a sexless marriage right from the outset. Thus, I never stopped MO because my sex drive was always high. I would estimate that I would MO once a day on average.

    Time went on, and the Internet arrived, and the MO sessions went from magazines and movies to photos online. Oddly, I didn't really discover even porn videos until sometime around this period - early 2000s, but I remember how exciting those were. Then once tube sites started popping up, I started using those for daily PMO, which was still at least once per day, maybe more sometimes. I'll note that my tastes in porn never got extreme like is often reported - they were always pretty vanilla as far as things I liked to watch - nothing I'd be embarrassed to admit. But I did notice over time it took more videos and more time to PMO than it did at the outset. I wasn't intentionally edging but sessions probably got to the 30 minute range as I searched for something that would be exciting enough to get me over the edge.

    Since I had a pretty low frequency sex life with my wife, I didn't really notice that problems were brewing, but in retrospect I can see that they were. For example on the rare times we would have sexual encounters, I generally was only able to O by doing it myself, often watching her do porn-type things (again keep in mind my tastes were vanilla). On the rare cases we would have sex, I would feel very little, and more often than not lose my erection. I don't remember really having an pure ED, but usually I would have to be the one to stimulate it. She really couldn't get much effect.

    My second chance

    We got divorced in early 2014, and I imagined a wonderful single life where I could finally start having sex again. After a while of bad first dates and just re-learning how to be single, I happened across a great girl who I have really hit it off with - we get along great, and everything seems to click. However, I was shocked the first time I went into her bed and there was nothing happening down there - not even a 10% erection. She is very attractive and let's face it this was the first time I was with someone new for 20 years - you'd think I'd be excited. I ran home that day (this was Dec 2014) and some google searches didn't take me long to find sites like this and YBOP and I felt I pretty strongly had all the symptoms of PIED.

    I immediately decided to give up porn, and I want to make sure that I make it clear that this was not difficult for me. I did not experience the withdrawal symptoms that people describe, and did not really feel much temptation or urge to PMO once I found out what was happening. I know that PIED is a result of porn addiction, and I am sure that I have the addiction-related changes in my brain, but I found "beating" the addiction incredibly simple. I have not PMO or MO since that day, and have not really felt much desire to do so. That was not hard for me.

    What has been a struggle is getting my erectile function back. And the problem is that my new girlfriend has a very high sex drive and really wants sex, and I just cannot perform...and it's really getting to me.


    I did not journal my reboot, but I will try to remember key parts and summarize here.

    Through the first 2 months we would constantly try to get things going. I think over time there started to be some slight signs of life - I believe at first I would O with barely any erection (which really surprised her - she hadn't seen that happen). We tried penetration but there usually wasn't enough for that. Had a few cases where maybe we got mild penetration with like a 60% erection or so, but then if that happened there would next be PE, and it was all over in 30 seconds or less. My desire for sex seemed high, but in retrospect it was more the mental and emotional side of it - new relationship, etc. I don't think it was true libido.

    There was a 2 week period where we didn't see each other as I was out of town. When we saw each other again, I was hopeful that the break would do some good (I also did not O during that period which was probably the longest period of no O), but the first night there was nothing. Then, oddly, the next couple of days I got a decent (70%-80% maybe) erection from just kissing, and we had sex a few times. PE was still an issue, but it was nice to get the easy erections. However, I don't remember how, that sort of stopped and things reverted back to basically nothing happening.

    At that point I got a bit more desperate and tried to go longer periods without O. I was thinking maybe the O was messing things up, so if I got close we would stop. The erections were still erratic, and any time we had penetration it would lead to near-instant PE feelings, so we had to stop. However, during this time I started getting morning wood, which I feel like I haven't had for a while. It's not really morning wood - I find I have it in the middle of the night but not when I wake up, but at least it's there.

    A few weeks ago there was one day when I had a lot of sexual thoughts, which I don't have often. That night when I saw her it was a bad day in her cycle, but still I had a pretty good erection for a long time with manual and oral stimulation, without the PE feelings. And the next morning I also had good erections but we didn't "do" anything about them as I had to go. Then, oddly after that day, I felt my libido drop and then the ED was back in basically full force - nothing happening. Finally, last night, after three weeks or so of no O, I got a slight erection through manual stimulation, and suddenly and quickly PE feelings were there and I O'd for the first time in weeks. No clue what that will do.

    So that's my background. As an "older guy" I've read / heard that the reboot should be faster, but it's been more than 4 months now and I usually do not find that the ED seems any better than the start. Yes, I've had moments here and there along the way, but it seems to revert to basically full-on ED. As I said I have had no MO and no PMO and no temptation to use porn at all.

    I guess some of my questions are:
    - Are there other older guys with the same type of story - long reboot without any PMO or sense of relapse, but the ED continues on and on. Will it ever go away?
    - I wonder should I be having orgasms with my girlfriend or not. I feel like I've tried both ways, and neither seems to help or hurt the recovery process in a predictable fashion.
    - What else can I do? I'm doing no MO / PMO, I have constant intimate contact with a real woman, I am taking all sorts of supplements / herbs that I'm sure are doing nothing but I'm desperate. How can I fix it?

    So yeah, my questions are the same as anyone's I guess - will I be OK, and when will I be OK? How can I make this hell end?
  2. TheBorb

    TheBorb Bullshit detector

    Re: Horton's Journal: 43 and long, slow recovery

    You sound very similar to me. It's hell. Arousal drives it for me. I know my willy works but without that 'ignition factor' during sex it just doesn't do anything, maybe a leaking semi-on here and there but nothing I can rally work with penetration-wise. I've started using Viagra and I'm not proud of that fact but sex is a necessity and the last three times I tried it it has consistently allowed me to perform. But it's not ideal.

    It's all in the arousal. I feel I've depleted mine somehow. And, like you, I'm badly wanting it back. I always ask this question but have you ever taken antidepressants? I have and I KNOW they've been a contributing factor to my current state. It's all a grey area though and I hope you find a way mate.
  3. 40New30

    40New30 Keep going

    Re: Horton's Journal: 43 and long, slow recovery

    I don't buy into the "older guy" has it easier theory, especially if the older guy has a long history of MO and PMO along with less real life sex. That's a lot of wiring to pixels and to the ol' hand, that's not going to unwire over night. Long history of PMO makes it take longer to recover.

    4 months is not a long reboot really, the whole 60-day-delta-fos-b-is-gone-and-you're-done-theory doesn't fit with the overwhelming majority of people on this forum, if you read a lot of the stories it's taking people many months all while improving over time. Seven months, a year, 15 months, 3 years.

    And lastly, you didn't really reboot if you were orgasming a lot, the original reboot theory is 90 days, no P, no M and no O.

    I'm not saying you have to go with no orgasms if you want to, but expect a much longer rebooting period. Guesstimate would be 3 to 4 times longer. One guy in our age group went from ED to no ED while orgasming with his partner on ED drugs in about 9 months, results will vary.
  4. Horton

    Horton Member

    Re: Horton's Journal: 43 and long, slow recovery

    Thank you guys for the replies.

    TheBorb, no I have never taken antidepressants. It's hard for me to say what my level of arousal is. There are times when I feel very mentally turned on, very engaged, but nothing is happening below the belt. And other times, I may not even be as mentally turned on and yet things are working well downstairs. It almost seems to me like the ED is not really related to arousal in anyway - like it's random, or at least semi-random. Sometimes I think also it's the ED that leads to a feeling of lower arousal if I have it, not vice versa.

    One thing I'll note is that I've noticed that since I stopped PMO, I am eating more, and I've put on some weight in the months since I stopped. Probably substituting the pleasure chemicals in my brain I guess. I need to get that under better control.

    Saw my gf last night - last night I got a really good erection, though right when penetration started it did soften a little according to her. Still had PE issues - probably took less than 45 seconds for it to be done. Then this morning we had some brief penetration, but it was never really a good erection, and I knew from the start it would fade, and it did after a minute or two. Then we tried for a third time in the afternoon but there was a very minimal response, so nothing doing.

    I don't think my gf would really be up for 3 months of no O. I do wonder how much of an impact that may have, especially now 4 months into the process though. But of course the ED problems are ridiculously frustrating and I'd like to do what I can. Is there any real data on the requirement of a reboot? It sounds like there's at least one case of someone going to no ED even while O along the way (but no P and no M). Thoughts?

    Thanks again.
  5. 40New30

    40New30 Keep going

    Re: Horton's Journal: 43 and long, slow recovery

    You will recover in the long run as long as you stay of P and M. Because everyone is different there is no reliable data on EXACTLY what will work for you.

    Here is something that should help you...how do you feel after orgasm?

    Because I know for a couple of days to a full week after orgasm (at this stage) I feel like shit, I get headaches, insomnia, and anxiety. What this tells me is that I'm not ready quite yet. Are you ready? Maybe, it depends on how you feel. Personally I wouldn't orgasm more than every couple of weeks for a long while, but that's me.

    Go by feel.
  6. WP

    WP New Member

    Re: Horton's Journal: 43 and long, slow recovery

    Hey Horton,

    Man I am REALLY glad to read your post! I'm NOT happy you are having problems, I am just happy that I am not the only one mired in similar circumstances. I am severely frustrated, concerned and DEMORALIZED about my ED. I am 99.99% sure that my ED is indeed PIED. The only reason that .01% is out there is because it is taking me so long to reboot. Sometimes I think "is the porn REALLY the problem here?" Regardless, I will be better off without porn in my life, even if the ED isn't porn related (and it IS).

    My story is very similar to yours. (My thread is "PIED" if you care to check it out). I am like you in that, once I got out of the habit of PMO, it really has not been that hard stopping. I had 65 days in beginning last October but I relapsed for about 2 weeks in early January. Other than that hiccup, I have not struggled too much with temptation to PMO. So, to give some perspective, I am about 95 days or so with no PMO, add in that 65 days from before and I have had a nice little run however, my PIED seems to be almost the same as it was in the beginning. I am noticing morning wood more often but I would say it is a 50% erection or so and after I become fully awake, it subsides very quickly.

    Making matters worse for me, is that I am recently married and my wife and I want to have at least one child. With my ED, this isn't happening right now. At 44, I don't need to wait much longer. I got married about a year ago but I didn't know that I was porn addicted until October of last year. I have not told my wife but I have a feeling that I am going to have to sooner rather than later.

    Sounds like you and I are in similar shape. Let's keep on pluggin' dude. 8)
  7. Re: Horton's Journal: 43 and long, slow recovery


    I'm 40 years old and had chronic ED for over two decades (since I was about seventeen). I don't buy into the whole "older guys recover quicker"-thing either. Like 40New30 says it depends more on your sexual history.

    It took me about nine or ten months to have successful sex and I am still progressing.

    These things take time. There are guys posting success stories now who have been rebooting between 2-4 years. I don't find this strange at all. Maybe not what you want to hear and I think you'll probably see good results within the next few months but full recovery might take a year or more depending on your sexual history and individual variations.

    It's good you've got a GF even though I know this can be frustrating and painful as you go through many failures. But your day will come. Believe me. You also had successful sex in high-school. I never even had that. And now I'm having the best sex of my life.

    Most of this (PIED, chronic ED) is still a mystery to me and you'll find a lot of "magical thinking" on this forum, as to what to do and what not do do. Some people treat rebooting as a religion.

    The only things I can say for a fact increased my erectile quality and sexual health are ABSTENTION from PMO and MO/self-touching and also realistic fantasies focused purely on my girlfriend (I find it builds up sexual anticipation).

    Other than that, I really can't say. I think slow, lubed, very light stroking without going anywhere near orgasm and keeping your PC-muscle, buttocks and legs relaxed can be beneficial if done every now and then. I do think this can help recondition your erectile response and increase penile sensitivity. But I can't say for a fact.

    Also, even if this forum can be helpful to a degree, it can also make you obsess about rebooting and ED. In time, I would suggest leaving it. I did but came back to check in although I plan on leaving it for good as I don't find any use from it considering I now have a fulfilling sex-life.

    I thought I might be able to give new rebooters some advice, but I have come to understand how little I know and understand of this, how everyone's situation is unique and different and also that some people are so convinced by the kind of "magical thinking" I was mentioning (such as "catching a glimpse of a half-naked girl in a commercial is replapsing", dogmatic views on masturbating/not masturbating, dogmatic views on what kind of sex to have and not to have whilst rewiring, reitarating neuroscience they don't really understand and omitting behavioural explanations, views on "escalation" in porn and sexual behaviour, etc.).

    I've found many don't seem to want advice from someone who has rebooted and is having succesful sex, strange as that may seem. Many in the process of rebooting instead seem intent on giving their own strong opinions on the do's and don'ts of rebooting which they follow religiously and slavishly without much experience to go by.

    So for me, this will be a short guest appereance. Anyway, I'm ranting.

    All I wanted to say was that I think you will see good improvements of your condition hopefully within a few months (especially if you're able to continue rewiring with your girlfriend) even if full recovery might take anything from a few months to one or more years.

    Stay strong. There's light at the end of the tunnel. If I could pull through after two decades of this affliction, you can as well.

    My best of wishes.
  8. 40New30

    40New30 Keep going

    Re: Horton's Journal: 43 and long, slow recovery

    Some excellent posts in this thread!

    I don't know how this all works either, all I know is that porn and masturbation mess up my brain and my dick, and I am addicted to them.

    When I abstain I get much better erections (from zero to hero) and much clearer thinking, and I'm so much happier for no apparent reason. When I relapse I will binge and when I binge I get depressed, anxious, foggy, tired, and my dick starts to now work.

    This is how I know Gary's theory is sound, direct experience; everybody needs to find their own way, but base the method to your madness in the science. And be patient, it does work if your ED is porn induced.
  9. Horton

    Horton Member

    Re: Horton's Journal: 43 and long, slow recovery

    Hey guys....stepped away for a few days but I really appreciate the great responses and support here. This is an incredibly frustrating problem and it's I guess comforting if nothing else to know there are others out there going through the same thing.

    First some replies.... 40new30 - how do I feel after orgasm? It's a complicated answer. Many of my orgasms have come when I have been hard enough for penetration, but they come very quickly (PE, another problem on top of the ED). So often I feel bad because I couldn't hold out and please my GF on the rare occasions when I actually get erect. But that said, I do feel good afterwards, and while it seems somewhat random, I think that I actually get better erectile results for a few days after orgasm. Beyond that I don't notice much different - neither hornier nor less horny, not happy or sad, etc...

    Also 40new30, by any chance do you know the thread of the guy who you were describing when you said "One guy in our age group went from ED to no ED while orgasming with his partner on ED drugs in about 9 months, results will vary."

    WP, I read your thread and it does sound like we have a lot in common. I hope things are progressing at all for you and definitely appreciate your comments and support.

    Some updates for me - as I said above, I had been having orgasms but feeling bad, so I have decided that "for the month of May" (no idea if this will last that long) I am just going to see what can happen and enjoy it. I think I've already had 4 O's this month - one through hand, one through oral and the other two through penetration with a semi-erection. Actually one of those was pretty solid at first but got a bit weaker. It's been nice to let go and O and enjoy it, but it does not seem to be helping my erectile function. Today we went back to her house for a "quickie" and there was nothing at all happening. It was very disappointing for her, and it certainly makes me feel bad.

    I debate between keeping on with this "month of May" experiment of just doing what I can, or trying ED drugs, or just going for a 60 or 90 day no O period. I don't think my GF would like the last option however.

    One note is that in the midst of this O 'streak' in May is one day I woke up with very nice morning wood, like 80%, that hung around for 5-10 minutes before subsiding. But that was a few days ago. Nothing since then.

    Will try to keep updating, and finding the magic solution. This is an amazingly frustrating problem. I feel like my libido is much stronger than it was a couple of months ago when I had first stopped PMO, but it's just sometimes nothing happens as far as erection. Yet, other times, it works OK. With no real way I've found to predict (and I'm good with patterns).

    Thanks again everyone.
  10. 40New30

    40New30 Keep going

    Re: Horton's Journal: 43 and long, slow recovery


    This may point the way forward for you :)
  11. Horton

    Horton Member

    Re: Horton's Journal: 43 and long, slow recovery

    Thanks 40new30! I appreciate you finding that for me. Great info.
  12. 40New30

    40New30 Keep going

    Re: Horton's Journal: 43 and long, slow recovery

    Yeah, I think it suits your situation perfectly, you're welcome. I used to think hard mode was the only way, but after reading Mart71's success story I realize that staying away from binge P and M is the real key.
  13. WP

    WP New Member

    Re: Horton's Journal: 43 and long, slow recovery

    Hey Horton,
    Good to "see" you back dude. My ED seems to be worse than you describe yours as being. However, I did wake up with what seemed to be about an 85% MW erection on Saturday. This was probably the best quality erection I have had in years. I am like you though, I have absolutely no consistency and other than MW, my erections are nil.

    I am however still motivated to keep up the fight and I hope that you are as well.

  14. 40New30

    40New30 Keep going

    Re: Horton's Journal: 43 and long, slow recovery

    i didn't have MW for years, when it came back I was flabbergasted, I just thought guys over 18 didn't get MW anymore. How to hell did I even think that, how did I live in such an emasculated bubble for so long? Fear, ignorance.
  15. Horton

    Horton Member

    Re: Horton's Journal: 43 and long, slow recovery

    I am with you guys. I can't remember the last time I had MW before this process. Now it's erratic but at least it's there sometimes.

    I also find that I sometimes notice I have erections in the middle of the night, which I know is normal, but also an encouraging sign. Sometimes those are particularly strong.
  16. Horton

    Horton Member

    Re: Horton's Journal: 43 and long, slow recovery

    Update: This past weekend, was with my gf and got a HJ...started out and it got pretty solidly erect, but then it sort of flagged a bit in the middle - not totally but lost some firmness, then got harder again before O. It's noteworthy because I feel like in the past, once it started to lose hardness it would be all done, so the rebound was nice.

    Last night was there again...it got just barely hard enough for penetration, which we did. PE was there again - it ended in probably less than a minute with an O. So not really a great performance there, but at least it worked a little bit, if not well.

    As I think I've mentioned before, for this month of May I've decided to just try to "use it" as much as possible and see what happens, which I realize violates a lot of the advice in these forums, but we really don't know much so it's just another data point. No P or M of course - it's all only with my gf. But if O happens, it happens, even if with PE. I'm just letting go and enjoying it for now.

    I would say that overall my libido feels higher than it did a couple of months ago. It's all degrees and I was saying that even two months ago (vs 4 months ago), but these days I've been with my gf I have felt a strong urge to do something. For example last night she got off first (with my hands). I feel like a couple of months ago I'd assume full ED and just go to bed, but instead I sort of encouraged trying which led to the intercourse last night.
  17. Horton

    Horton Member

    Re: Horton's Journal: 43 and long, slow recovery

    Tried for intercourse last night, but only got a partial erection, like maybe 50%. Was able to have a very sad form of intercourse for a little bit before it faded.

    What was interesting was that even though the erection faded, the deep libido did not. I still physically (not just mentally) wanted it, but the performance wasn't there.

    It's very frustrating, and my gf is getting extremely frustrated by it I know. She wants to be patient, but can't help but feel there is something she's doing wrong. She said last night that she mentally understands what's going on, but that "sex isn't mental, and there is physical and emotional feedback I'm not getting". Comments like that just make me feel worse, but it's like....what can I do? I'm doing everything I really know how to do right now, which is just completely staying off P and M.
  18. 40New30

    40New30 Keep going

    Re: Horton's Journal: 43 and long, slow recovery

    Sorry to hear about all that, you will get better in the end, and if this girl isn't patient enough, there are many, many others out there for you.
  19. Horton

    Horton Member

    Re: Horton's Journal: 43 and long, slow recovery

    So last night's activity - late at night, I got a bj. It was semi-erect throughout - not hard enough for penetration, but not nothing, until right before O it got harder for just a moment.

    Then this morning, which tends to be a good time because I get a few erections over the night, we had penetration. I still don't think it was really fully hard, and I again had to deal with PE (maybe 1 minute, maybe 1:15?), but at least it was something.

    This is a very hard thing to understand, why some days it works better than others.
  20. Nomadic

    Nomadic Member

    Re: Horton's Journal: 43 and long, slow recovery

    Horton I am in a very similar boat. I'm 45. Been addicted to MO for 25-30yrs, PMO around 20 yrs. I've been on ED drugs since they came out since ED started early. I only started my reboot about 10 days ago. No MO/PMO since. My last relationhip ended a month ago and lasted 7 months and there was lots of PMO/MO in the backround. Cialis worked for me much of the time but the side effects I hate. But some good sex on it. The last time before we split up, 5 MG of Cialis and had really good sex. But other times (especially when PMO/MO) my dick was like a compressed slinky. Nothing. HJ/BJ...nothing.

    Fast forward to today. Dating a new woman I only met 10 days (ago). Probably rushing things I'm sure but we've already been fooling around a lot. First time with her, my PA (perf anxiety) was there big time. I told her it was nerves as I could get fully erect for a handjob. A big part of it is that I really liked her from the beginning.......so I "care" about the outcome moreso than if it was a casual hookup.

    I did have sex with her a couple times. Once I was 75% erect going in, but got fully hard once we got going. Other time I was pretty hard most of the time. Again always with some Cialis in my system.
    So it's touch and go. I told her I have nerves with a new partner, had some porn addiction for a couple years after my divorce (this is true but not the full truth obviously as it's been more like 20 years). I also told her that I may have a physical problem with bunched up veins.....which my urologist mentioned but it really has no effect on erections. So I feel bad as it's probably BS but I guess I tell her this so it eases a bit of pressure of me and allows her to think it's not her.

    My girlfriend is understanding so far. Very much so but then again we've known each other 10 days. But I feel like it's been 10 months. I have a good thing with her and like you and others......don't want ED to be this big barrier. So I just stay away from MO/PMO and it's helping some. And just go with the flow. I already have deep feelings for this woman and I'm not just going to try my best.

    If I were you, I would try some ED drugs for awhile and see if they help. I'd be taking large dosages if they didn't congest me so bad. Best of luck to you and thanks so much for sharing your story. As I know I can relate to much of it.

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