Hacking through

Discussion in 'Ages 40+' started by HackingThrough, Oct 3, 2013.

  1. HackingThrough

    HackingThrough New Member

    So I made it to 60 days, and everything's going okay, at least on the PMO front. Hurray!

    Now the rant. One major thing that is bothering me, that's always bothering me, is that my wife and I have sex once a week, almost never more, and it's not enough for me. She's rarely interested in having sex more often. I know this is a common situation, but it's still frustrating, and it was one of the things I was thinking about a lot when I ended up relapsing a year ago, after 85 days. I'm on board for no PMO, but not for a paltry sex life.

    It's hard to know what's "normal" here. I know some guys are having no sex at all, and would be psyched to have a once-a-week partner, and other guys have sex every day.

    From what I read, dealing with this kind of frustration, discomfort, is part of the no PMO project. Get used to being uncomfortable. But it still sucks!
     
  2. LTE

    LTE Master Of My Domain

    I don't think that there's a true "normal" sexual frequency. Every couple has to figure that out for themselves. Once a week ain't bad, there are a lot of people that'd be happy with once a month. The battle is in the mind, not the genitals. I look at my abstinence as a way to have myself potent and ready for real sex. I feel in control and I can face any challenge because of it.
     
  3. P changes the view of relationships and women. Viewing her as simply an outlet could be a turn off. Karezza might be something to research together.
     
  4. Beowulf

    Beowulf Member

    Hi, I am fully of envy for your position.. I miss needing an outlet, I miss frustration... all I feel is fatigue, but I stay up late with a bottle of wine whilst my wife asks me to come to bed, I don't because I literally feel no libido at all...
    So I'd rather be in your shoes, and 60 days that's really great... I hope that being PMO free helps you with your feelings of depression. For me, one plus side of all of this has been general uplift in mood if not libido, and I am also more productive.
    Good luck with it all..
     
  5. HackingThrough

    HackingThrough New Member

    Just wanted to check in and say hello and happy new year to everyone. I've almost reached 90 days, a milestone of sorts. Today is 86 days, a day longer than I've ever made it before. Joining this forum has been a super helpful motivator, reading everyone's accounts and watching my counter creep up. I've even started working from home, working at the computer all day, and am still doing okay.

    I should come here and read posts more often. It's always a revelation. Beowulf's comment about envying my frustration -- who would have ever thought! I totally sympathize with his situation (good luck Beowulf!), but it puts my own in perspective. My "problem" is actually a good sign, I guess. Wacky.

    I actually do have these little intermittent libido blips, and am in one now, but they're different than his. I do want to have sex, but then when I do it feels okay but lacks the usual intensity. It kind of grinds on. It can be a little disappointing. But it's not so bad -- it only lasts a few days at a time, and I can rest assured it'll be better the next time. I suppose it's better described as a lingering ED-related issue rather than libido or desire.

    I found Underdog's long post very interesting and so practically useful. I really do need to sit down and write out my goals. I know what they are, basically, but I get distracted from them. In my case, it's pursuing the work I want to do rather than scrabbling for a paycheck. I'm in a position where I can do some more interesting work without worrying about money, at least for a few months, but I keep half-pursuing less exciting paid work instead. I almost think I do it in order to distract myself from the more difficult work of getting into more challenging creative projects, the way someone becomes obsessed with cleaning their room when a deadline for a school project is coming up. Hey, a little aha! moment here: It's like the moment Underdog cites, when the pleasure/distraction of porn drops so much that the resulting discomfort forces you to finally deal with your porn problem (at least temporarily). The danger is that you'll get a little confidence boost, feel better, forget the discomfort and relapse. Likewise, in my old job I felt I was growing old doing meaningless work, and finally just quit so I could do better things; but now that that reminder, that discomfort, has diminished, it's hard to stay focused on my goal. So I've got to write down that goal, post it where I can see it all the time, and be bold. Take some risks, try some things that might not work, bother some people. Gotta do it.

    Another part of Underdog's post that was so compelling was the part where he says, Deal with it: you're not going to have sex with lots of hot chicks. It just isn't going to happen. That is obviously true, and I know it and live my life with that understanding, but at some level it's so hard to accept! It's like, someday I'm going to grow up, be a millionaire, become president, and fuck hot chicks all the time. And in fact…none of that is going to happen. I can accept the money stuff, and I certainly don't want to be president, but accepting the sex/chicks part feels like stabbing myself in the liver or something. The idea of not scanning for hot chicks on the street seems impossible; I would have to wear blinders, like a horse. I'll keep taking it one day at a time: Today I'm not going to screw a hot chick. Tomorrow I'm not going to. We'll see about Thursday when we get there.
     
  6. HackingThrough

    HackingThrough New Member

    Hey all. I made 90 days. Should I reup to 120 days? Or stop counting?
     
  7. fcjl8

    fcjl8 The only path for me

    Hacking,

    90 plus days! Very good sir! For what my opinion is worth , yes, re-up and go farther young man.
     
  8. LTE

    LTE Master Of My Domain

    Keep going. A lifetime is my goal.
     
  9. Beowulf

    Beowulf Member

    How are you feeling? I still envy your frustration! Hope I can get to where you are, congratulations with 90 days, brilliant stuff...
     
  10. HackingThrough

    HackingThrough New Member

    Interesting, about the frustration. It's changed.

    A couple weeks ago I had one of my periodic panics about not making any money in my new freelance career, and that kind of anxiety/tension typically makes me want to have sex or PMO. Then last week I had a little epiphany that, basically, it's okay not to worry, at least for a while. Worrying and anxiety don't accomplish much. The Dalai Lama has a nice quote about how, if something's fixable, there's no need to worry about it; and if something's not fixable, then worrying isn't much use either!

    The epiphany was a great relief. The tension evaporated dramatically. So much so that when when I had an opportunity to have sex with my wife, I was ambivalent, wondering if I wanted it enough to make it work. (How about that, Beowulf?) We did have sex, later, and it was fine, so it's safe to say I'm not in a flatline.

    But then, at the same time…I've been doing that dumb thing again where I do Google image searches (with a filter on) that I shouldn't be doing. Nothing hardcore, but some nudity. I did it a couple nights ago. Then, a little bit later, I MO'd. I went back and forth on to whether I should count it as a relapse, but concluded that, to be honest, it was. I was thinking about those images when I jacked off. So: PMO. Alas. But I made it to 113 days! My record by far. And it doesn't feel like a major relapse; I don't feel like looking at serious porn, and the experience was a good kick in the pants to remind me about being disciplined.

    So, resetting….
     
  11. LTE

    LTE Master Of My Domain

    Those image searches can be dangerous things.
     
  12. HackingThrough

    HackingThrough New Member

    Ugh. The relapses. I did 113 days, and now I can't get past 10 days or so. I'm cracking down on myself. I need to get past a couple weeks to cleanse my brain and then get rolling again.
     
  13. LTE

    LTE Master Of My Domain

    You just have to power through the first few weeks until it starts to become easier. It does get easier, for me the turning point was 14 days or so. Open up Uncle Bob's Porn Recovery Tips at YBOP and keep some of that info available for moments of temptation.
     
  14. nevergoodenough

    nevergoodenough New Member

    I just have to chime in here as a wife who just found out her husband has been using porn for the past 10 years, which is clearly an addiction, and of course led to ED and many other things. I can see where you are frustrated only having sex once a week with your wife... does she know about all the porn stuff? For us women there is a big emotional connection with sex. You were complaining that you won't be having sex with tons of "hot chicks", how bout making your wife feel sexy, important, loved, take this time to really bond.... even if she doesn't know about the porn use, she knows something is up.... we all do... I knew, but thought, no way would he hurt me like that. ha! I'm sure if you take the time to really make your wife feel like a wanted, loved, appreciated, woman, more sex, and better sex will happen. In my case, EVERY male relationship in my life has been abusive in some way. From dear old dad to boyfriends... I have only ever been able to have an orgasm with my husband.... and a few weeks ago when I found out about this porn addiction, I no longer could. I wanted to so bad. But I couldn't let those walls down.
     
  15. Gracie

    Gracie Member

    Dear Good,

    I am answering here because of your post. Your pain is real. We women here have all felt it. We knew something wasn't right, just not the what. If you read through my posts, you will find that out. When those of us that have been abused or mistreated, feel like we have found the one, and then this happens, it feels so painful it is hard to describe. But we have to decide what we as a wife want to do. I have been working on this with my husband for 1 1/2 years. Sometimes it is so easy and others so damn hard. All of the men here would find their relationship improved if they devoted as much time to their wives as they did with their porn chicks. And really if they just spent half the time, it would be a great improvement. Just the two together for 2, 3,4 hours a day with no one else around. Just remember when their wives were their beloved.

    Hopefully, they will learn this for the sake of their relationships. For the sake of their children and most important, for the sake of themselves.
     
  16. nofapado

    nofapado Guest

    PMO is not sex. It is not a substitute for sex. The only similarity is that real sex and PMO use one - maybe two - similar part of the anatomy. Real sex is part of a relationship. To confuse PMO with sex fuels the addiction. It is harmful for the person with the PMO problem to make that mistake. And it is a mistake for spouses and families to confuse the two things.
     
  17. Gracie

    Gracie Member

    Nofapado,

    If your comment was directed to me, I made no mention of sex. I was talking about spending time together. Alone, with our husbands. I did not think I implied having sex. If it was not to me, then this post doesn't apply.
     
  18. nofapado

    nofapado Guest

    Gracie my comment was directed toward the discussion about PMO being a substitute for sex with hot chicks.
     
  19. HackingThrough

    HackingThrough New Member

    I want to respond to nevergoodenough's post. This is complicated stuff, but here's a try.

    First, I have a very good relationship with my wife, we spend lots of time together, and she knows I think she's great and sexually attractive. We have our ups and downs, but nothing serious and definitely nothing abusive. I'm very sorry to hear all your relationships have been abusive - that's terrible. I'm hoping you are able to find a way to some kind of happiness despite all that.

    Second, I wasn't complaining about not having sex with tons of "hot chicks." I'm not expecting to be doing that, and I would never cheat on my wife (i.e., have sex with someone else). I was referring to this very useful post: http://www.yourbrainrebalanced.com/index.php?topic=15558.0 The point, as interpret it, is that that sex with lots of hot chicks is a fantasy, a pornographic fantasy, and a very harmful one (as you indicate). The hot chicks themselves are a pornographic fantasy. It's never going to happen. The author of that post says getting over that fantasy is necessary because it distorts your relationship with real women, and makes you keep mistakenly feeling that porn will make you happy. What I was saying is that it's really hard to give up that fantasy. If I could wipe that from my mind, my porn addiction would be gone. It's a true compulsion, like OCD or heroin addiction, biologically burned into your brain, and changing that is difficult. By god is it hard -- I've been working at it for many months. You can't just give it up just like that. (Well, some people can, but certainly not most.) That's why they call it an addiction.

    Third -- I wonder if you're suggesting that a man with a porn addiction is abusive toward his wife or partner. It's an interesting point. I imagine that coming onto this forum must be strange for you, to say the least, because you have the perspective of feeling deceived and in a sense betrayed by your husband. I totally get that, but believe me, for me and most (probably all) the guys here the addiction is this albatross or anchor around our necks that we're trying to cast off and not in any way an act of aggression toward our wives or partners. So if your husband is a good guy, I urge you to try to help him out with this. You may be in for a rough time, but, again, in my experience it's a problem he's trying to deal with and not about you. That may sound odd, since it's about sex...but really, that is the case. A lot of us guys got infected with porn in the brain when we were pretty young, long before we met our current partners (for those of us who have partners). (Another thought...maybe your husband doesn't think he has an addiction, or isn't try to deal with it? I'm not sure what to say about that.)

    Fourth, just since you asked: My wife, a long time ago, did figure out that I had a problem with porn. It caused problems between us, which I think we've overcome over the years. It's sort of forgotten now, and we haven't talked about it in years. I guess it would be better if we did, but frankly I'd much rather work on dealing with the addiction on my own rather than get into that hell of shame and estrangement again. My wife isn't a therapist; it's not like she can cure me. (And your spouse can't be your therapist, anyway.) Ideally this is something a husband would be able to share with his wife, but to me the cost just seems too high.

    So, good luck.

     
  20. nevergoodenough

    nevergoodenough New Member

    I hope you didn't take my post the wrong way, I know sometimes things come across misconstrued thru writing, and I know a lot of what I'm saying anymore, once I say it, doesn't make sense.... I haven't been able to really eat or sleep in weeks, and it is SO loud inside my head, I can't stop thinking.... I can't turn it off. I keep trying to figure out how and why. I get it on a logical level, just not a heart level if that makes sense.

    My husband and I also had a great relationship, god I was stupid enough to believe we had nearly the perfect marriage. It was the one thing in my life I thought was right. There's only ever been two people in my life I could trust not to hurt me, 1 was my mom. She died 2 years ago at the young age of 52. The second was my husband... and ironically he's the one whose hurt me the most. I guess probably because the guys who would throw me down stairs, or rape me or whatever, I could just write them off as assholes. We didnt have that deep connection that my husband and I did. He is a good guy, and I do love him and we are working thru this.

    I mean its hard .... I NEED that deep emotional and spiritual connection, that kind of sex where you can totally let go of everything, and nothing else in the world exists for those moments, which of course we don't have now bc I can't let go, I need to hold on to a little bit of me for safety or whatever it is, idk. Hopefully we will be able to get there again. I know myself well enough to know that if we can't work thru this, I would never be with anyone else again. I don't just want sex. I want that insane connection, where you don't know where you end and he begins, where it seems like you are literally floating thru space and its just the two of you. I could never let anyone else in again, bc I honestly think it would kill me to be hurt any more. I can't explain to you the feeling I have inside right now, I am so crushed, I feel like I did when my mom died, which is crazy! Part of me has died again.

    I see what you mean now by the "not having sex with tons of hot chicks" comment... i get that.

    I just know from a womans point of view it's not so much about the porn as it is the lying (be it flat out or by omission), you're essentially having a relationship with the computer, it takes away from the real relationship, not add to it. Hub tried at first to compare it to the smut I read, and I have even started writing a really pretty great book, which I will probably never finish now.... I said the "smut" I read adds to US, I bring that into the bedroom with US, the porn has taken away from me, from us... from him not being as emotionally connected as he should be... I always noticed it, but I do moreso now, like last night we were making out, and I can tell when he slips into that auto pilot thing and he's really not there, where he's not listening to my body cues, which are pretty bold, like if he's kissing me and its like he's attacking me, and i'm pulling away and he keeps going, sometimes it's downright scary (especially for someone who has been raped), it also took away physically, bc porn induced ED.... it confuses me, like really you have a woman here who is good looking, sexy, open to you sexually,

    anyhow ultimately you have to do what you feel is right for you, I know I wish he would have talked to me LONG ago, but I guess if your ultimate goal is to be free from PMO ... idk I guess we all have our own journey. Best of luck with yours.
     

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