Drop the kid, start living

Discussion in 'Ages 30-39' started by Fiddler, Sep 1, 2012.

  1. Fiddler

    Fiddler Active Member

    I agree with you. Up and downs of libido/love are part of the rewiring process.

    May I ask you why did you relapse? I'm curious because I can't see myself relapsing any time soon UNLESS I'm going to have a few days without my gf. She at the moment provides everything I may need in the sexual department.
  2. Thebeg

    Thebeg Well-Known Member

    It was exactly the reason you stated, no sex with gf.
  3. Fiddler

    Fiddler Active Member

    I didn't realize I last updated this thread 2 months ago. Wow. I admit I didn't come here at all, as I don't believe PMO applies to my issues anymore.

    Ok, fast rewind. I am still with my gf. I have no issues in the sexual area anymore, I get a morning erection every day and I can have sex almost once a day, even if some positions make me lose the erection pretty fast. Probably I am not concentrated enough to keep the erection. Missionary or when she rides me, it's all good.

    Thing is, everything else sucks. I am not really happy with my choice of girlfriend. She is often infantile, naive and not as smart as I thought. She is trying to keep a diet but repeatedly failing. She is curvy, and I'm saying this not to hide her being obese as she is 72kg for 174cm tall. Overweight but not too much. I appreciate her curves. Problem is, I'm constantly hit by better girls, slimmer and that take a lot of care of themselves. It's not that easy too keep my faithfulness. My main problem, aesthetically speaking, with my gf is that she doesn't take a lot of care of herself: she rarely uses make up, she likes to dress comfy and she has no fashion sense whatsoever. When we were dating she put some effort in dressing up, and when she does she is really pretty to me, but now that we are living together, she forgets to try to seduce me or to be on par with other women. She has become lazy. And before somebody comes up with it, I do dress up, for no reason other than looking good. So it's just her.
    This, along with the fact that she isn't following any diet anymore, is bothering me more than I'd like to admit. I don't see her improving anytime soon. She will just get older and fatter, probably. That's alarming to me. I take a lot of care in looking good and I have been complimented a lot for this. I can't stand staying together somebody who doesn't care about her looks.

    I told her that she should train and eat clean. She failed at both. The most exercise she did this whole month was 15 minutes in a swimming pool, half of this time not even swimming. She promised me to start going to work by bike but she never did. She tries to eat clean most of the days, only to waste all efforts by gorging on ice creams in the evenings or eating chocolate here and there. I already told her that after we're back from the summer holidays (at the end of September), we will start going to the gym, at least twice a week. But I am nearly certain she will fail to keep up with my rythm there. I don't really know how to make her understand that her lack of attention for her look is becoming a problem for me without hurting her.

    Anyway, I said at the beginning that PMO doesn't matter anymore, issues-wise. I believe to have watched porn only twice this year, both at the beginning of the year. It's been months then. I did fix the ED issue, which I am happy about, Yet everything else is the same, if not worse. Perhaps you remember that I wrote months ago that I hated people and disliked spending time outside. Well, it didn't get better over these months. Even going to the supermarket means a lot of stress for me, and I find myself cursing each person I met on my way out, for no reason other than them being on my path. I really feel like I hate everybody, without exception. I have been mean to my mother during our phone calls and I have been rude to coworkers who invited me to go out, declining their invitations at the last moment without explanations. The few times I forced myself to go out ant try to be sociable, ended up with me bored after not even half an hour out. Last time I was out with my gf and a few friends I remember spending the last hour without talking, only browsing the web on my phone. I think at this point I sound as a selfish and rude person to many, which doesn't make me feel that bad actually.

    I have not gained any social skills whatsoever. I don't talk much at work, I haven't made a new friend in months and I am actually welcoming some time alone, whenever I can get it. I went to a vacation, alone, for 4 days in Cyprus at the beginning of July, while my gf went to a music festival in the north of Poland for 5 days. I didn't go out even once in the evening during that time, preferring to watch Youtube videos and reading a book. I simply couldn't get bothered pretending to be willing to go out. I am close to giving up even trying to be sociable, I sort of accepted I'm a loner and will spend my life alone, forever.

    Also the depression didn't subside at all. I am depressed whenever I'm alone. Only my gf keeps me not-depressed when she is with me. Whenever she is away, I don't last more than 2 hours without feeling depressed again. She is aware of this and messages me nearly every 2-3 hours when away, just to check that I haven't fallen too deep into depression.
    Basically, depression has become my natural state. I can count the times I felt happy on the fingers of one hand in the last 2 months. I have no the willforce to focus on studying anything. I am making no progresses towards any goals in my life, I am just content to have an office job that I can pay the bills with and a gf that allows me to have sex whenever I feel like. Which I admit aren't bad things and many guys haven't either, true. I'm not complaining, just stating that these are the only positive things I feel I have in life right now.

    Point is, despite removing PMO from my life and adding the love and sex of a real woman, nothing has improved but for ED. Very often I feel desperate enough to feeling that I should just give up, leave work and live my life off my savings, as long as I can. Then, I'd kill myself.
  4. NoDestination

    NoDestination Active Member

    The real pleasure of life is in giving not in taking. Good luck.
  5. Thebeg

    Thebeg Well-Known Member

    Hey Fiddler, sounds like you're in a difficult spot with your gf. You're not completely happy with her, yet at the same time you'd be worse off without her as she keeps you from feeling depressed.

    I went to a psychologist to learn to handle my depression. This is something I definitely recommend. It's not that he gave me a magic pill but regular focus on your depression will help you to approach it from different angles and work on things methodically. For me it worked very well in tandem with rebooting. They both share effects, but at the same time therapy and a reboot also compliments eachother.

    Let's say you've put in effort and changed yourself in a compassionate, condifent and happy guy. You'd probably break things off with your gf. Which may be the best thing for her as well. You'd go your way and find the things that really fit you.

    Social skills need to be worked hard for. And what's worse, it requires you to step out of your comfort zone. The brain always responds to this fear with a "I can't be bothered" type of thought pattern. But you DO care, else you would write this lengthy post about it, right? It's something you need to work on, on a regular basis. Small steps.
  6. Fiddler

    Fiddler Active Member

    One thing about social skills: I am trying. Most of the days I'm too tired, mentally, to go out in the evenings because of work. During the weekends I am going out as much as I can but it's not that I get many invites, probably because my friends understand that I'm not comfortable being among them and they gave up inviting me. I understand them, but it doesn't help. The alternative would be going out alone but my gf wouldn't let me to and either way, I tried many times in the last year and it didn't teach my any social skills.

    Perhaps I should make it a proper plan but I haven't got the time. I'm too stressed at work to also going out each evening or so, nor the money would be sufficient. I don't really know how to improve in this area.
  7. Thebeg

    Thebeg Well-Known Member

    Can you elaborate how exactly you are trying? What do you do precisely, where and what time? It's no problem to approach a supposedly natural thing in a methodical way. I've done it too and it works. Also, you do have a gf so I guess you have rudimentary social skills.

    Also, can you pinpoint what exactly is making you uncomfortable about being with your friends? Are they unkind and thus making you feel unsafe? Are they unfriendly? Friends should make you feel safe and good. What's the thought process when you're among them, do you get into a thinking mode, resulting in you becoming quiet?

    If you don't have time, are you able to make time, or make it a higher priority so you can work on it instead of some other activity.

    I consider going out alone a "high skill" activity as it feels extremely uncomfortable at first. I felt like that too the first time I tried it, despite my social skills.
  8. Fiddler

    Fiddler Active Member

    I can't remember last time I went out alone as I'm in a relationship. I can describe you the last time I went out for more than a couple of hours. It was 20 days ago or so.

    I went to a party with friends from work. Me and my gf. We sat on the outdoor patio of a lounge bar. Not loud music, which helps to chat. For the first hour or so, I was content to discuss with friends about the news at work and in their lives. We were a group of 12 people so there was always somebody speaking and a conversation going that I could join. I didn't start any conversation though, I find it hard to come up with things to comment on and while I think about what to say, somebody else already started talking. I'm slow.

    None of my friends were unkind or so. I remember being asked about my holiday plans by 2 of them, and I happily told them. I joked with one, with whom we share the same kind of humorism. After roughly 1 hour passed, I went to take a second cocktail and started to talk less and less. I focused on smiling and nodding, while sipping my cocktails. I was bored. It wasn't even midnight. I just lost interest in the conversation, and was thus only waiting for somebody to make a good joke or start a topic that I could relate to. My gf asked me if I wanted to leave at this point and I said that it would have been rude to leave so early and that she was enjoying the party so we remained at our places. It went like this, me bored and barely partecipating into any conversation, for like 2 hours, or so I remember. People started to leave at the end of this period, around 1am and later. At around 2am we were invited by the waiter to move inside, as the outside patio was going to close. A couple more people left then, and I remained with my gf and 4 more friends. Conversation became more comfortable for me as the ones who remained were the ones I like the most. We have been going to parties together, all 6, since a few months so it was pretty easy for me with just them. One of them stopped talking, tired. The girls (it was only me and this other guy while the rest were all girls), started laughing and chatting between each other, with me joining them, occasionally. I had my share of alcohol and was at the point when I'm relaxed and not worrying too much about what to say, without being downright drunk. I couldn't drink more as my stomach wouldn't have forgiven it. We chatted, the 6 of us, for like another hour. I didn't talk much and I was often checking the phone. I didn't worry about talking more as in some sort of way I had the feeling that having "resisted" for so long was enough to prove I enjoyed the evening and nobody would complain about me not having tried to engage. At half past 3, we all left.

    That's mostly about it. And be aware that it was a very "successful" evening, as I talked and joked more than my usual. Normally I would have left 3 hours earlier and spent much more time checking the phone.
  9. Thebeg

    Thebeg Well-Known Member

    Your report of this particular night sounds quite normal to me. It's normal to have these waves of being talkative and more listening. And as you've seen it depends on the people who are in the group.

    One thing that I really hate is when a group is sitting down and there is no way to move around. I love to be able to walk and mingle, that way it's easy to find a spot to your liking when there are many people. And I also can get into a really low energy state when I don't have much to say to the people, which depends on the subject being talked about.

    Maybe a better question from me to ask would be what you want to get out of your social skills. For example, do you want to be able to make new friends and meet new women, including a potential new gf? That requires different social skills compared to being able to hold conversations during a party with people you know.
  10. Fiddler

    Fiddler Active Member

    I want to take more the initiative. I often have the feeling that what I say goes unnoticed, at work and with friends. I can see it from the lack of reactions I get when I try a joke or make a comment: very, very often only the closest person to me reacts to it, while the others don't. It may be due to how I talk but I don't know how to improve it, I have no feedback on this.

    Ideally I would thus be able to be heard more and come up more easily with things to say. Be more bold. That in turn may earn me more friends and new women. I cannot improve as long as I feel bored most of the time or I even feel like I hate people. I truly hoped that rebooting would give me more desire to connect or at least remove some of the fears I have in approaching people but it instead made me hate every interaction with other people. It is impossible to improve my social skills while I hate the persons I'm talking with (but for very few exceptions).

    Actually my gf had an insight on this: she says that I'm one of those persons that goes along only with very specific individuals. I just have to find what kind of invididual I like and learn to recognize them. I'm very selective, so to say.
  11. Thebeg

    Thebeg Well-Known Member

    It seems like you're getting more specific now, good. About your hate towards other people, I think it will take some more introspection to find out for yourself where that comes from. Maybe you hate other people because subconsciously you think they owe you their attention. Or your interactions haven't been very positive so far, despite your best attempts. Either way, if you hate someone you barely know, the hate comes from within, it's not them. You're doing well Fiddler, I suggest you keep working on it and your interactions will become better and give you a better feeling. Now onto the parts that you can work on..

    Basically I would say there are two things that determine how many people will listen to you when you say something.

    First is your voice. The difference between an uncertain and confident voice is huge. A confident voice speaks calmly and a bit slower. Also the tone of voice is lower. At the same time, it still conveys emotion. So if you're enthusiastic, people should hear that. When talking to multiple people, make sure your volume is loud enough so that people will notice you and listen to you. Speaking with volume indicates self worth, because you find yourself worthy to be heard by multiple people.

    Second is your body language. It should telegraph to other people that you're at ease with being the center of attention. An open body posture (no arms crossing for example) is important. And most important is eye contact. You can keep people engaged by keeping eye contact. When speaking to multiple people, divide eye contact. If you're somewhat practised, you can notice that one person needs a bit more eye contact to stay engaged. So in that case give that person more eye contact.

    Rebooting helps these a bit automatically. A lot of guys say their voice becomes deeper and they find is easier to hold eye contact. Probably because of increased testosteron. But you can train the rest as well and you should. You can experiment with your voice and your body language. There are loads of videos on this subject on youtube. Pick one thing and consciously work with that. For example, speaking just a tiny bit slower. Too much makes it sound artificial, but no problem if that happens, you're learning after all. Onto some examples..

    I like the introduction video of the first iPhone. Regardless of his personality, Steve Jobs is a prime example of someone who can fill an entire conference room with his presence. Take note of his voice and movements and skip through the video a bit:

    And here is one that you may like as it's a workshop about speaking spontaneously. It also adresses anxiety about social communication.
  12. Fiddler

    Fiddler Active Member

    Clear, thanks for the informative post. One thing though: aren't part of these things you suggest to work on supposed to improve by rebooting? I've read a lot of reports about deeper voices, better posture, more confidence etc. I didn't get any of these, apparently. How so?

    I have the constant feeling that rebooting was a complete waste of time in my case.
  13. Fiddler

    Fiddler Active Member

    Well, 2 months after my question about not getting the desired results with rebooting, I can confirm I'm not still getting any. I don't feel more sociable, actually less, I don't find easier to talk with people, despite doing this every day at work, I don't find socializing less tiresome, I don't have better confidence, I don't feel less depressed (yesterday I skipped going to work because I was simply too depressed to).

    Basically, nothing changed for the better after rebooting but for the quality of my erections. I don't want to discourage anyone here, I truly wish you all to get much different results than me and I encourage you all to giving up PMO as it is indeed a waste of time. Only, I have to accept I must look into other ways to improve my life as rebooting did extremely little. It doesn't work for me, who knows why. Hope it will work for you all though.
  14. Thebeg

    Thebeg Well-Known Member

    The first benefits from rebooting are sexually, like improved erections as you mentioned. How long has you longest streak been, 60 days as you mentioned 2 months?

    As for the other social things, a reboot can help but if there are other factors in play, then those factors may need a different approach.

    I had similar problems, with depression being one of the biggest ones. This year I've been going to a therapist and that actually helped me a lot. I still have two types of social fear which are interrelated: fear of peeing in public urinals and allowing myself to get aroused and erect when I'm with a new woman. Rebooting may assist in feeling a bit more confident, but some of the techniques from my therapist may actually help more.
  15. Fiddler

    Fiddler Active Member

    Longest streak, I lost the count. Last time I watched some porn was in mid-August, so I went over the 2 months mark. Previously I should have watched porn 4-5 times since the beginning of 2017. Not perfect but basically 99% of my days are without porn, enough to warrant much bigger improvements.

    Anyway, clearly there's something in me that prevents getting the same results as everybody else here. Pity. Probably therapy could shed some light on this but I'm still wary of it.
  16. Thebeg

    Thebeg Well-Known Member

    Why are you weary of therapy? Do you five the idea scary, a form of weakness or something?
  17. Fiddler

    Fiddler Active Member

    I find it hopeless. Like a long, fruitless serie of meeting that have minimal results, if any. I tried therapy for years when I was younger and come out of it always with the impression therapists are cooks trying to cook pasta with a paper stove: they don't realize it can burn.

    Probably therapy is still in its infancy. In 100 years it will be 100x times more effective. As it is, I tend to believe in pills or myself only.
  18. Thebeg

    Thebeg Well-Known Member

    Therapy is yourself. You have to put in the work, a good therapist only serves as a mirror to give you insights and show you the steps to take.

    At least that has been my experience so far.
  19. Fiddler

    Fiddler Active Member

    Oh man, how long has it passed since I last updated this journal? Seems like aeons ago...

    Anyway, I've been mostly PMO free since my last message here. I counted a dozen relapses in the last 3 years and these 2 months of 2021. All of them were shorter than my usual (but for a very long one), and with way less extreme forms of P. Vanilla P, so to say, plus just erotic images or girls on Instagram. Everything very mild, then. Plus I've been rewiring with my gf for all this time, a couple of times per week, sometimes more. No breaks. Daily cuddling sessions as well, as my gf loves them even more than actual sex.

    The result? I just want to die. I never felt as hopeless as in these last weeks. I gave up trying to improve my life since the end of 2020, I just can't summon the strength to do so. Even playing videogames feels like a chore and I have to push myself in trying to enjoy them (most of the times failing). I just don't enjoy anything that I ever enjoyed in life: not music, not movies, not books, no videogames. Since roughly last November I've been feeling a steady drop in libido as well, making me never initiate sex. My gf sometimes tries to, and I try my best to focus on the feelings and enjoy it, but it's much less "bah" than it was in 2019 and before. I am not that interested. And it's not a drop in interest in my girlfriend as I don't even look with interest at other girls on the streets anymore. I couldn't care less, basically.

    I know that in all this time I haven't been perfect. I know that a relapse every 2-3 months is still hindering my progresses. But going from a guy who PMOed every other day, if not every single day, for years, to one that can go without PMO for months should have given me much more than this bleak, uninterested, boring life I have. At least when I was PMOing I had depression but also enthusiasm in life, a drive that I wanted to achieve something, that I was interested in things, new or old. Now I don't have any of that, but the depression hasn't left me.

    I've been talking about this lack of results a lot before, I'm aware. That was the main reason that made me stop updating this journal and leaving the forum. Yet now I feel like here I was at least listened to, where anywhere else I wasn't and am not.

    That's all, for now.
    nuclpow likes this.
  20. nuclpow

    nuclpow Well-Known Member

    Hi, Fiddler. You may remember me as quitpornfoo. It's been a while.

    I'm glad you have a job and a girlfriend now. I'm also glad that acting out is rare for you now. It seems like you've mostly quit porn. I think cuddling your girlfriend is great too, and will help with rewiring. Have you tried light sex play, that is some sexual activity that doesn't lead to orgasm?

    I see you seem depressed. I'm on anti-depressant medication and I suggest you try some, too. Also I think you haven't rewired yet. I haven't rewired either so I don't know how to tell you how to do it. But addiction makes people have a low mood even when things are going well, and I think that's happening with you, possibly along with depression. Maybe if you did mentally challenging things like programming or chess along with the light make out with the girlfriend it might help you rewire. Also try to abstain from porn and fantasy masturbation.

    As for me I have quit internet porn and I only sometimes act out to fantasy. I don't know how I did it, but it's a really big improvement. I feel like I'm not rewired yet so I'm still working on that part.

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