Document the Victory

Discussion in 'Ages 40+' started by realness, Jul 7, 2020.

  1. forlorn

    forlorn Well-Known Member

    Oh, that would drive me mad. The hoarding of all that unnecessary stuff (I feel stressed just reading about it) - but as you say, certain circumstances and time pressures have made it difficult for her to address the issue. Could you try approaching it in a way where you inform your wife that you're planning to go to the recycling centre on 'x' date to get rid of some of your own stuff and ask if there's anything else she wants you to take?
    Or maybe you chunk the task down into smaller elements to make it appear manageable - could you both set aside some time to start 'organizing' the stuff - perhaps start by putting all the things she definitely wants to keep to one side.
    realness likes this.
  2. Rudolf Geyse

    Rudolf Geyse Well-Known Member

    @realness I can relate somewhat - my parents-in-law just about lost their house to hoarding as well. It's a real problem that may require some professional psychological help, which she may resist as well out of fear that the counsellor would tell her to get rid of everything. I hope you can continue to navigate this problem with patience and love and find helpful constructive ways to deal with the stress!
    realness likes this.
  3. realness

    realness Well-Known Member

    thanks guys. I've tried to gently approach things and break down the tasks of purging our home. Usually it leads to a disagreement about discarding something and I back down and retreat. Or we make some progress and then I go passive for a long time and PMO and things build up again. That's one of those subtle effects of PMO that you don't realize over time. This has all gone on too long and one of the benefits of my recovery is I have more self respect/confidence, energy and boldness to not let it go on any longer. Yesterday she brought up some activities and commitments she is interested in outside of the home. She's been a stay-at-home mom for 8 years now and it's reasonable for her to go for things like this. But not with our house the way it is. It's a good opportunity for me to address this and be firm that our house needs to be in order before she can dedicate herself to outside pursuits.

    I've wanted to binge and PMO and relapse for a few weeks now. When the urges come up I've been able to pull back after thinking of the wreck I'll be afterwards. I've often settled for MO or FMO to get by. This morning I woke up and started to MO. But I stopped knowing that it will power me down. It will steal from my energy, self confidence, self respect, and my ability to serve and love others. I won't bring up any issues with my wife or stick up for myself. I'll take the short-term easy path of avoiding conflict, work and accomplishing things and just get by as issues pile up around me. Nope. None of that. I've had tastes of victory and accomplishments and I want more.
    Rudolf Geyse likes this.
  4. Rudolf Geyse

    Rudolf Geyse Well-Known Member

    Like with PMO there is a deeper root cause behind the hoarding. It could be that she wants to keep control in a situation which makes it tough to have control over anything - 4 kids etc (I have 4 and it can be chaotic to say the least). So by having each particular item she feels like she has something in her life that she can master, and it would therefore be very difficult to part with... or maybe I'm wrong and it's some other issue.

    In the same way that most of us on this forum researched our issues and came to some helpful conclusions, it may help to research the psychology of hoarding and see how to support someone who battles with this?

    Really all the best there and I hope it comes right.
    realness likes this.
  5. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    Yes it is!

    This is a controlling statement. None of us get to decide how the other will live, nor what will be beneficial for them. Having a life outside the house, and all that means, might very well give your wife the motivation to get rid of a few things.

    Most men, at some point in their lives, want to get rid of all the clutter. Most women want to hold on to it. Guess what? That's fine! We don't have to agree on what shit to throw out. Men want get rid of the clutter because they believe it will magically transform something within. "I will have room to do this and that and the other!" The truth is, it isn't the clutter of our houses that is a problem, but our minds.

    You have done, and are doing, great work realness. Allow your wife the same latitude that you would like for yourself.
    positivef and realness like this.
  6. realness

    realness Well-Known Member

    You're right, it is controlling to be conditional and demanding to my partner. I don't think I meant to express myself that way. So I'll be cautious and slow in how I'm dealing with this challenge. And this is a good reminder of the grace my wife has extended to me regarding my weaknesses that really offended her.

    I'll clarify that our "stuff" issue isn't just a matter of preference or a matter of us being better organized. It's a matter of entire rooms being unusable. Of parts of our home being blocked like desks and file cabinets, that has a domino effect of more stuff cluttering other areas of our home because we can't access storage or other spaces where it should go. My wife is in agreement that this needs to change, but for a long time has felt helpless and overwhelmed. And it's understandable that she feels that way. But it is unreasonable for us to stay that way. And that is my challenge as the man and husband in this home: how do I encourage and help and accomplish the goal of improving our home to make it effective at housing us and 4 kids?

    So, things are on a good path. We miraculously got a date night recently when some friends volunteered to come over and watch the kids for the evening. We had a good time and we were able to talk about the opportunities available to my wife. I expressed my support for her, but also expressed my concern about our house really being in trouble. I was able to do that in a positive, encouraging way, while also not being passive and eager to avoid conflict. It went really well! We agreed that next month we'll work together to purge and improve our home to put our family in a good position for my wife to spend more time outside of the house. I know that the actual purge will have some challenges. But I'm so happy that we were able to communicate well about it all. This was big for me, as this issue was one that I allowed to harden my heart with resentment, anger and frustration fueled by my unhealthy coping with PMO.

    I'm still struggling with psubs and fmo, but today will be 2 days complete with none of that, to go along with 53 days of no P or PMO binges. Recently the clothes dryer died, the family van needed new tires, we've needed a plumber for some issues, work has been crazy busy with non-stop fires to put out, and it's all felt overwhelming at times. But how wonderful to not cope with PMO. It's been great to rise to the challenges and love and serve my family well. There have been breaks and rewards, like a good latte at the coffee shop, and an amazing lunch at a hole-in-the-wall Mexican restaurant run by a kind and humble family. I am grateful for those good times.
    Saville, positivef and Rudolf Geyse like this.
  7. realness

    realness Well-Known Member

    Getting hit by some strong urges and memories of some favorite P stars. The house is empty and I can choose to indulge and get a few hours of euphoria. And then stumble, checked out and in brain fog and shame, and muddle through some truly fun holiday plans over the next few days leading up to Christmas eve and Christmas with the family. On paper it's so not worth it, but with my weak brain it's a bad decision that I've made before and could make again. So here I am.

    The "No" muscle has been exercised today and I hope it's stronger for next time.

    The good and the bad of the holidays are in play. The wife is exhausted and certainly not open to intimacy right now. The house clutter situation is even more stressful as the house is getting inundated with new presents to wrap from family. There's no good places to put the kid's boots, mittens and snow pants they're using to play in the awesome snow we've been getting in our small-ish house. The kids are in mid-transition on clothes due to size and the season changes, so there's totes full of clothing to either be stored or donated. The totes are in the way of windows so I can't open and close curtains. Donated in our house means months of purgatory as the wife is either legit unable to keep up with it or unable to make quick, proactive decisions. It's all building up and it takes self awareness and work to cope with it in a healthy way. When my wife denied sex last night I think I did a good job of just listening to her and letting her vent it out all the stress. The clutter and work bothers her too. I needed to hear that as I often process it as a hurtful thing she's doing to me on purpose, which is simply not true. We settled on the action of setting up a night each week for her to get out and away from her responsibilities so she can get some rest and a regular break. I get that on Tues nights with my recovery group. Glad we made some progress on that.

    I'm looking forward to a purge and reorganization of our house in mid-Jan. I'll need to set up a child care option for the kids for a weekend. A place for all 4 of them to go for both Saturday and Sunday, otherwise we'll surely fail and get little/nothing done.

    Awesome, I didn't PMO. I'm off to get a few stocking stuffers for my wife. There have been past Christmases where her stocking was empty because it's a detail thing I ignored. I'm glad to be on my game this year and have found a few simple things to love her in that way.
    Rudolf Geyse likes this.
  8. Rudolf Geyse

    Rudolf Geyse Well-Known Member

    I definitely need to exercise that "No" muscle for fantasy. It's starting to atrophy over the last couple of weeks.
    realness likes this.
  9. realness

    realness Well-Known Member

    Full off/on relapses before and after Christmas. There was a lot of time I was just checked out of things. This isn't the man I want to be, not the man I enjoy being. Back here again to mark a return to the right path.
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  10. Rudolf Geyse

    Rudolf Geyse Well-Known Member

    If you go after the right path long enough, I believe you'll get it. All the best
    realness likes this.
  11. realness

    realness Well-Known Member

    I've been on this site a lot the past two weeks enthralled with some amazing journals full of wisdom, transparency and real life. I'm carving out time now to update my journal and participate with others on theirs.

    I can't really make sense of the past month. It was bad in that I went full binge over the holidays. I bought a cheap tablet to act out on with PMO binges. It was ultimately unsatisfying and I returned it. I confessed this to flesh and blood brothers in my life group last night and I am confessing it here. But things have been really good too as I am now strong in my commitment to resume recovery. Intimacy with my wife has exploded in the past 4 weeks. Something clicked in my head and all I want to do is bang my wife. I've tried new things with her and discovered the thrill of the chase again. I've been blind to how lazy I have been about pursuing her. As an example, it's challenging to be intimate in the winter with our old drafty house. Our bedroom is one of the coldest rooms. Why haven't I thought of getting a space heater and warming up the room in anticipation of asking my wife to come to bed with me before? Because I was blinded by PMO. So a few days ago I got the heater going after we got the kids down to bed and lit a bunch of candles and told my wife I wanted her to come to bed with me. It was awesome! I can't stop thinking about that time and I can't wait to do it again and get a good pounding going again! That's all my sexual energy now. Looking back, this has all been months in the making. She changed over the summer and has lost almost 40lbs in 7 months. I've been changing and I put a ton of effort into a big milestone birthday for her that we celebrated in NOV. We've been feeding off of each other's energy and there's momentum to continue.

    It feels too easy to just resume recovery mid-stride like I have, but I'm not going to overthink this thing. My brain is in a great place where PMO is just so obviously an unfulfilling option. It would be so much better to have my cock in my wife, her tits in my mouth, and getting as worked up and sweaty as possible. My challenges now include managing that sexual energy well. When sex isn't possible, I have to find other ways to use that energy or hold onto it until I can have sex. This is a new challenge since I've been so lazy and weak for so long. My insecurities have still come up when I feel like I'm not getting reciprocal energy from my wife and I am the one initiating intimacy and closeness all the time. I get sucked into the hidden agendas, strings attached and covert contracts that I create in my weakness. For this stuff, I'm so grateful for the wisdom from other men here. I'm emerging from nice guy syndrome. I have better tools and knowledge to be healthy. I'm worthy of love and respect from my wife and those around me. I can say directly what I am feeling to my wife and there is no need to try and please her or anyone else around me. I have safe places like this one and my guys life group to delve into the more personal struggles and weaknesses that I'm purging from my life. This stuff takes time, but it's so worth it. I can weather the set-backs and challenges that will come along the way and I'm strong and able to resist the cheap alternative of PMO that hurts me the most.
  12. realness

    realness Well-Known Member

    Had a babysitter come and enjoyed a dinner date with the wife yesterday. Got a nice walk in with her beforehand and got to listen to what was on her heart and some frustrations she's having with some friends. I was proactive and found a kind older woman from church to stay over night in a few months so my wife and I can have a hotel overnight. I'm so jacked up looking at hotels and finding something with a hot tub. Kissing my wife, holding her, finding the next opportunity to get naked with her, it's all awesome and so thrilling to be on the chase. I feel young again. Doing those things feels like it did when we were dating. She's asked about this change and where all of this is coming from. It's led to some good conversations.

    Today is one week from PMO. I MO'd 5 nights ago as I was wanting sex bad with the wife and chose not to hold out. Not a success, that's not how I want to handle my energy. The next night I scored intimacy and sex with the wife and since then, no O. Today I'm feeling the energy so I'm using it to come here, do push ups, and will tell my wife tonight clearly and tactfully that I desire her and want her.
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  13. CleanBootsBaby!

    CleanBootsBaby! Well-Known Member

    Man, that is as real as it gets :D. Great job!
    realness likes this.
  14. realness

    realness Well-Known Member

    it's a rough day today at home. School for the 2 oldest kids switched suddenly to remote learning due to COVID for today and Monday. I got the pre-schooler out for her class this morning and came home with her mid-day to a clogged toilet, a defiant second grader, a cooperative first grader, a screaming 2 yr old, and a exhausted-zombie-megabitchy wife who took some of her frustrations out on me. I got the toilet going and helped with lunch. I made it a point to take care of my family but not fawn over my wife and fall over myself to make things better. I was treated like crap when I got home, and while I understand why she did that, it will need to be addressed and not just glossed over. I have to value that in order to value myself. That's my step one in handling this all in a healthy way. Coming here is step two, step 3 is some pushups, and that will launch me back to my job in being diligent and give momentum towards being productive at home and taking care of my family when I log off of work.

    So many times shit like this would happen and I'd switch right on to resentment, and entitlement to self-sabotage with a huge porn binge to feel better for a bit. Fuck that. I'm taking care of myself, expecting an apology from my wife, and moving on to things that have value.

    Thanks for your encouragement CleanBoots! I asked for sex and didn't get it last night. It kinda adds to the sucky day and can lead me down the self pity path of this all sucks, there's no sex or reward, blah blah blah. Lies. I make choices and the things I can't control I still make choices in how I react to them. I'm really excited for you and your future. Addressing PMO now before you have a partner? Damn, that's a huge move of health and strength that will save you heartache bro. With interest in my wife rekindled, I was looking at older pictures of her and saw her young beauty and hotness and knew that at the time of that photo, I was stuck in PMO and didn't appreciate and enjoy her as I should have. I really missed out which is sad. Thankfully I can learn from that, not dwell on it, and I've been granted today and likely a lot of tomorrows to savor my blessing.
  15. CleanBootsBaby!

    CleanBootsBaby! Well-Known Member

    100%. If anything, being more assertive during my marriage would've served me well. I don't have children, but being put on the back-burner constantly as a husband that does things right (there were such instances), is something I won't accept in the future. I think many wives fall in this trap, and their husbands just go along with it.

    A simple: "I am sorry, forgive me!" goes such a long way.

    You sound like a man with a good plan. Good things are coming your way.

    I keep repeating this like a broken record: "No matter how bad things are, I can make them worse by PMOing." Our self-respect needs to transcend our immediate needs / frustrations. We do it, first, for us.

    Thank you, I appreciate it.

    I, too, remember one night when, after having sex with my wife (we had a great sex life), with her sleeping in the same room, I watched the Playboy channel and masturbated. She was a young, beautiful woman, too. What a wretched thing to do...and, the scary part: I always bear with me the ability to go back into that filth, and even worse. So, going back now, not worth it. Even if I knew there was nothing but singleness in my cards going forward.

    At least I can take solace that it wasn't P that led to the dissolution of our marriage. I had cleaned up my act by (much sooner than) then, and I jumped right back into old things after the divorce.
    realness and Mozenjo like this.
  16. realness

    realness Well-Known Member

    10 days no P, 7 days no MO. Yesterday sucked. I was an emotional mess. My insecurities and fears were so strong and so difficult to dismiss. I read another journal where someone observed that removing PMO from your life is removing a crutch or brace that was supporting your emotions and mood. I'm really feeling that as I feel lost in all of the emotions and fears that are circulating in my brain. PMO has been a foundation for my mental state. Yes, a total shit foundation of sand but a foundation none the less. Taking it away and letting the sand wash away to build a better foundation of character is rough and I'm living it now.

    Dedicating my sexual energy to my wife feels like I'm giving her the power. I'm vulnerable. I can be rejected and discarded and unloved. Intellectually I know these are lies. My wife is a good woman. She has her weaknesses, but to dismiss me and treat me like shit would be out of character for her. But, right now I'm finding it hard to dismiss the fears. I am having a hard time letting go of the scorecard of who's initiated the affections, who has scheduled the dates, who has initiated sex. I feel lonely. Being turned down for sex on Thurs and then having a fight with my wife on Friday was the ignition to all of this. I brought it up with my wife last night. Tactfully. I know that I can't be a whiny, needy little bitch. Where's the balance between communicating my needs to my wife, and being needy and pitiful? I hope I walked the balance well. I know that the bulk of my neediness and problems need to be hashed out here and with real brothers and friends in my life. Thankfully I made one friend aware of what's going on and I'm looking forward to meeting with him this week. I contacted another buddy and set up a night of drinks and dinner this week to get me out of the house and away from the family for my own health and enjoyment.

    My recovery has escalated to a serious commitment to stop P and stop MO. This is a new high of strength for me, so it makes sense that I'm getting hit with a shit-storm of insecurities and emotions.

    "No matter how bad things are, I can make them worse by PMOing." Thank you @CleanBootsBaby! for your encouragement and truth. Our recovery is simple, stop P and Stop MO, and so much else just falls into place. Your mantra is such a simple truth when things get tough. Our former way of coping will only make things much worse. The only way out is through.
    CleanBootsBaby! likes this.
  17. Rudolf Geyse

    Rudolf Geyse Well-Known Member

    Hey @realness I gotta tell you, I've been on the edge of my seat waiting for your next updates. I'm really pulling for you and I hope you will work it out with your wife. It sounds like you have your head on straight with where you are at in the battle. Stay on the good track.
    CleanBootsBaby! and realness like this.
  18. realness

    realness Well-Known Member

    thanks so much RG for your support and encouragement. You're journey is exciting and inspiring. We have a lot in common.

    Things got better and better yesterday. My emotions and insecurities quieted, I hugged and shed some tears with a buddy who checked in on me at Church. I enjoyed the perfect mix of some family time, beers and football. The house settled after the kids went to bed and the wife was game when I initiated sex. "I know you've been waiting" she said. She loved me well and I'm grateful.

    I'm going to attribute my roller-coaster emotions to the recovery journey. The few hard days demanded that I push through, endure, and choose healthy coping mechanisms and I'm proud that I did that. There's more tough times in store. I'm solid on my commitment. The field has been stripped of the weeds and trash trees and it's time to grow a good harvest in my life. The shitty times of withdrawal are just fertilizer for what's to come, take root and grow.

    I've been cranking up push-ups over the last few weeks for exercise and for coping with urges, anxiety, negative, feelings, etc. I'm up to 5 sets of 20 EA, and looking forward to increasing things from there. With warm weather I can't wait to mix in cardio with bike rides to the office or remove work locations.

    One negative thing to note, last night as I started to pump away, I got the dreaded vasectomy pain that has been dogging me on and off since the procedure in March. At times its flared up during an MO session, but I shouldn't have been M'ing anyway and was hoping it wouldn't be an issue with healthy sex. It's not severe and didn't stop me from sex. I very much hope this was an isolated fluke. In general my balls will be achy for 10 days or so, and then I'll have 10-14 days of feeling normal. I'm keeping an eye on things and entertaining the thought of a reversal if this keeps up and gets worse. I wouldn't say the vasectomy has been a failure because it truly has been nice in my sex life with my wife. But the recovery has not been great for me and there's a chance I may stay this way without intervention. All of this can escalate into some major fear and anxiety with how difficult a decision a reversal can be, as well what an expensive and possibly risky procedure to reverse.
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  19. Rudolf Geyse

    Rudolf Geyse Well-Known Member

    So glad for you for all those positives. Good to hear about your struggles with that procedure cos I've been thinking about going that route as well. Will do my research first.
    realness likes this.
  20. realness

    realness Well-Known Member

    Yeah RG, do your research on vasectomy. Reddit is a great source of info but also a great source of P unfortunately. I'm likely in the club where blocking the vas has created uncomfortable back pressure that flares up now and then. This is much more common than urologists say and treatment is limited once the vas has been done. It also may be more likely to happen in guys like us with some level of sex compulsion or addiction, where we've conditioned our bodies to an unusual level of release. I'm fortunate that I'm within 1 hour driving distance of a reversal specialist that takes in patients nationwide who fly in for the procedure. I'm exploring converting the vasectomy to open ended, where they can open the vas end coming from the testicle to relieve the backpressure. This would keep me sterile but has some risks of my body having an uncomfortable immune response to sperm coming out in my scrotum. Or it may be best to get a reversal to restore the flow. Great times!

    Since 23 DEC I've had almost no P urges and instead been constantly horny for my wife. Yesterday and today I've experienced an uptick in P urges. I watched a comedy show last night and one of the actresses reminded me of a P star. I got some thoughts I quickly dismissed. Looking back I'm so happy to have ridden a wave of easier times, a lull in the battle. I like to think that this a fruit of recovery. These times may come more frequently and with longer duration. It's incorrect to assume that we are stuck in this long grinding battle with constant P urges and there will be no breaks. They will come as we progress in recovery.

    Staying on it, 100 push ups yesterday, getting active with the kids outdoors today. Longer days means walks outside in the sunshine and planning some outdoor projects for warmer weather. Anything that keeps me busy and not idle for too long.

    The counter seems to have been messed up the past few days, no big deal. This Thurs will be 2 weeks no P and 10 days no MO. The no MO number is pretty great and something I'm really going to extend this time as previously, I allowed MO a lot and I believe it launched the train of weakness toward an inevitable return to PMO.

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