Do you HAVE to date or have sex to fully recover?

Discussion in 'Erectile Dysfunction / Delayed Ejaculation' started by Savlian, Jan 27, 2017.

  1. Savlian

    Savlian New Member

    Hi all,

    Long story short, I'm 22 years old, almost 23. I've never had a girlfriend or had sex before, and I've been addicted to porn since about age 13, with ED getting progressively worse, to the point where now, I'm not attracted to actual women (I recognise that they look attractive, but there's no physical reaction), and I can't get an erection without porn or at least vigorous fantasising (and even then, it's weak and short-lived). I realised I had a SERIOUS problem about two years ago. I've managed several streaks before (never longer than 23 days), and am currently on day 10 of a new one; I don't feel any better or any worse so far - I'm not in a flatline as I have some very mild urges, but I'm over the initial 3 days where the urge to PMO is very strong, so it's all very manageable so far.

    My question is, do you HAVE to have sex or be intimate with a girl to fully recover from PIED? This will be quite important for me, as if the answer is 'yes', that's going to prove problematic. For two reasons:

    1) For religious reasons which are non-negotiable as they're very important to me, I wish to wait until I'm married to have sex, and it doesn't look like I'm going to be married in the immediate future...!

    2) I suffer from severe Coeliac Disease and a whole host of related problems, like fatigue and chronic migraines. I've this week started an intense diet regime which will require strict compliance, and I'm going to have to keep this up for 6-12 months. I was planning to start dating this year (a big step for me, as I'm a very reserved, shy guy), but my illness took a turn for the worse over Christmas, and I really need to spend at least the next 6 months focusing solely on my health; I'm not in any fit state to be looking for a relationship right now, and I can't do anything about that, though I am very confident that the new way of eating, combined with not wasting any more energy on PMO, will help.

    But even after the 6 or 9 or 12 months it takes, and I'm ready to start dating, I still won't be ready to have sex. I'm totally okay with kissing and cuddling and stuff, but not sex of any kind.

    So, I guess my questions are: will my time abstaining from PMO for the next 6-12 months before I feel physically ready to start dating be beneficial to recovering from PIED and loss of libido? And then, after that, will the fact that I'm not willing to have sex outside of marriage impede my recovery?

    I would really appreciate any help. :)
     
  2. xburnerphonex

    xburnerphonex Member

    (Take anything I say with a grain of salt, as I am new to this, but I felt the need to reply as your situation as somewhat similar to mine.)

    Nobody knows for sure, but considering how the accounts of virgins cured solely by obstaining from PMO/MO/O are few and far between, you most likely need to rewire to a real woman. You essentially need to find a soulmate that you find attractive and have an emotional connection with, then cuddle and kiss her until you have a consistent physical reaction whilst abstaining from O, then progress to intercourse when your body is ready. Unless you live in a country where this is still part of social norm or she comes from a conservative community, you'll find that such women are increasingly difficult to come by, putting it mildly - not to mention your perception of women is jacked due to years of PMO.

    You could, of course, reboot for a year, invest this time in self-improvement and sorting out your issues, but you are likely to have excruciatingly slow / inconsistent progress during this time in terms of PIED improvements. Seeing how you are struggling with abstaining from PMO for more than 3 weeks, you're also likely to succumb to relapse.
     
  3. Matei99

    Matei99 I hope One day I'll be cured

    Nah man, u just need to stop that PMO DRUG FOREVER.and you need a woman who can love you the way you are.
    Just say "I HAD ENOUGH" and punch something and after that you will have motivation.
    Don't you see what you are doing to yourself ? Don't you see that we cannot enjoy the most beautiful thing ? A whole new life waits you at the end of the tunnel , no matter how dark is there ,the light waits for us all.
    JUST DO IT:mad:
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2017
  4. RebornAgain

    RebornAgain Beating my addiction one day at a time.. Staff Member

    You'll have to rewire at some point yes because you need to teach your brain to be aroused by real women and real life sexual intimate situations
     
  5. Savlian

    Savlian New Member

    Thanks for your responses, guys. :)

    Don't worry, I have! 11 days now. A long way to go, but it's gone for good. I've failed numerous times before, but was nihilistic - and directionless - about everything those times, as well as being slightly in denial about the nature of my problem. Now I know exactly what sort of a situation I'm in, where I need to get to, and how to get there.

    This post is very illuminating, so thanks. I think what you're saying makes perfect sense.

    Really, for someone like me, I think there are two distinct phases to the whole process: first is eliminating the porn addiction, then rewiring to real females. For me, although the most serious manifestation of my addiction is PIED, the most disturbing is the warped sexual tastes - nothing that extreme, but still, I don't like it. First I need to get rid of those, which can happen in the time I need to take out; I would just start trying to 'get out there' straight away, but my health really isn't great right now, so unfortunately, this time out is necessary.

    I can focus on rewiring afterwards, when I feel physically healthier, by which time the grip of the porn addiction (i.e. the compulsion to PMO) will largely be gone, and then I can focus on curing the PIED by seeking a relationship within which to rewire.

    It might take 1-2 years to get back to normal, but that's okay - I'm in no rush to have intercourse, and I'm in this for life.

    Good luck on your respective journeys, everyone! :)
     
  6. niskanen91

    niskanen91 Active Member

    Hello.
    I have very similiar story. I'm rebooting since summer 2015 had better or worse streaks (max. 3,5 months, currently on a 34 day streak) and with that being said 23 days streak as your longest isn't enough. What I'm doing now is not going for a streak but just giving up on porn forever.

    Actually, despite what is preached on this forum, "rewiring" per se didn't help me at all, I've spent some time with some girls during the recovery but the amount of time spent with them didn't increase my sexual arousal to them (which was mostly non-existant). However, after abstaining from porn for like 2-3 months I could get aroused to women instantly without any "rewiring" needed. My experience shows that rewiring is overrated on this forum and basically the only factor that is relevant is porn consumption.

    Forgive me an arrogant tone but I'm trying to be helpful and I have to say that this is a mistake. Why? Sex is a natural need for us, humans. You'll have the need of physical closeness with member of opposite sex as soon as you (even partially) recover from PIED. Your libido will go up. With this mindset you're going to either:
    1) Be awfully sexually frustrated,
    2) Rush marriage,
    3) Relapse into porn.

    There's no other way around it. You're a man and you have your needs. So far, you've been able to deal with your needs by using porn and if you want to give up porn, you'll need real woman to take care of those needs. I know that what you said is non-negotiable, what I wanted to point out is that by doing so you put yourself in a lose-lose situation.

    Few things here:
    - I feel sorry for you because of your disease.
    - I'd recommend gym if you want to become more confident
    - I'd recommend any social activities you can take to increase your social skills
    - I wouldn't force myself into dates. Basically, if you're not attracted to girl, you shouldn't go for low hanging fruits.

    Why not? Your best streak so far is 23 days and you think you can predict future and assume that PIED won't be cured after one year of no-PMO? I'd say, with 90% likelihood, it will be completely cured. By the way, from my experience, if you go for kissing and cuddling but not actual sex, your women are going to be sexually frustrated as f**k. I had intimacy with some girls like this (while having PIED) and it was quite bad for them, to the point where they move on quite quickly.

    According to my experience - yes. Abstaining from porn won't only be beneficial but it is the only way to actually recover. The answer to second question is more complicated, I would say that this may cause you to go back to porn. By the way, you masturbated to porn and (from religious point of view) you see nothing wrong with it but giving the girl an orgasm and wonderful time is something wrong?

    I disagree with it, you don't need to teach your brain to be aroused by real women, your brain already knows it but to use this knowledge you need to abstain from porn. Source: my experience
     
  7. Savlian

    Savlian New Member

    Hi niskanen91, interesting perspective. I've never gone long enough to really find out (I've only seriously attempted rebooting about 3 or 4 times, due to being somewhat in denial about my problems, ascribing them to medical issues, which has a grain of truth, but porn is the major issue), but I would say that over the past two days, the idea of being close to women seems a lot more appealing. No significant physical reactions, but mentally, the thought of it seems very appealing, which must be a good sign, though there's an awful long way to go, and it's not a linear process. Anyway, yes, I think our natural wiring is still there, just buried underneath all the porn wiring, though it needs help to come out, i.e. abstention and practice.

    Not arrogant at all. :) With sex, I understand I'm making things more difficult for myself, but I don't want to exchange porn for sex that - while it might be fun - doesn't mean very much.

    To be frank, if someone doesn't respect my views and would walk away because of them, then I'm probably better off without them.

    Oh no, I see everything wrong with it: it's exploitative, misogynistic, and destroys lives on both sides. It's just that I didn't really see this when I began consuming porn (I wasn't remotely religious at the time, and also bought into society's lies about it being totally fine, just harmless fine that hurts no one), and when porn gets its claws in, as everyone will know, it's very good at overriding the brain's sense of morality. I hate the fact that I've spent all these years addicted to it, but I can't change the past - all I can do is make sure it doesn't continue.

    Thanks for your contribution, and good luck! :)
     
  8. TheUnderdog

    TheUnderdog Active Member Staff Member

    This thread gives me a headache. There are so many conflicting beliefs and logical loops.

    The answer to your original question is irrelevant. Just quit porn. It doesn't matter how long it takes to recover. It doesn't matter if you need to have sex or not. Nobody needs porn to survive or be happy.

    That's like a smoker asking "How long will it take for my lungs to go back to normal after I stop?".

    It doesn't matter.

    Just quit.

    You KNOW that you have to quit. Any answer given to your original question won't change that. Unless you're waiting for someone to tell you that you must have sex to recover so you can use that as an excuse to continue watching porn (since you won't be having sex anytime soon).
     
    TheLongWalk likes this.
  9. Savlian

    Savlian New Member

    I know I have to quit. I'm not looking for excuses, and frankly, I think it is unfair to accuse me of that. I had been having anxieties and unanswered questions about the process, and particular my situation, which is why I posted - other accounts I've read state that a crucial part of the recovery was having sex, and I wanted to see if people had any insight. I thought that's what forums like this are about - you know, mutual support through a tough journey. I apologise for the fact that I don't know absolutely everything about porn addiction and am still learning, but I don't think there's any need to be so combative and condescending towards me. I won't be posting again, if that's the attitude of a staff member.

    Good luck on your journey.
     
  10. xburnerphonex

    xburnerphonex Member

    There are definitely several accounts on here that have been abstaining from PMO/MO/O out the ass with little to no results in terms of PIED improvements. I personally do not buy the NoFap mantra of "the body fixes itself" and am going out of my way to date women in spite of flatline etc, instead of waiting around for 2-3 years when even all females with a train of thought similar to OP's will have their spouses by then - by the time you find someone like that, you might have an incredible abstinence streak going. It takes 2 to tangle - why would sexual healing happen on its own?

    Dating keeps me busy and not focused on how many MW/SE I have, as I am actually doing something to make the healing happen. If they want intercourse, I explain that I'm looking for the right person still or waiting 'til engagement/marriage - no matter how corny it sounds, it is at least partially true and better than "my dick is dead because I PMO'd too much". If your date disagrees or is unsatisfied, you show them the door and move on to the next. The result - you've had your rewiring fix, gauged your progress a bit, kept the abstinence train going. Best case scenario - she sticks around and you are eventually able to rewire to her.

    PMO is portrayed as acceptable/harmless by society which is why people of various beliefs/denominations are eager to succumb to it - just because a person is religious, doesn't mean they're perfect.
     
  11. niskanen91

    niskanen91 Active Member

    Could you give examples of that? Stories that I've read and my experience suggest that abstaining from porn was crucial factor in terms of recovery, sex was natural thing that happened next after those people recovered but no amount of rewiring is gonna help you if you still PMO. Also, dates with totally limp dick will lead nowhere. Moreover, body really fixes itself - it is happening in my case, you don't need (and in fact can't) "teach" your body to be aroused by real women, it's innate ability your body has, it was overwhelmed by porn use though. I'm saying it as a hard case who masturbated to porn months before first orgasm.

    I don't know how to prove it scientifically but it happened in my case. Women used to give me zero arousal few years ago and now I can get aroused by them as soon as we start interacting.

    In both cases it means sexual frustration, however in the latter case period of this frustration is going to be shorter, especially if you're rebooting for few months already.
     
  12. niskanen91

    niskanen91 Active Member

    @Savlian

    I was 24 years old when I first felt arousal to real woman (it was short and slight but still counts) so yeah, I'm sure that while porn can overwhelm our natural attraction to real women, it cannot kill them completely. Deep inside, this desire is still there. After 3 months of no PMO, I felt arousal just by talking to very hot girl.

    Women are naturally wired for sex (just like men but to lesser extent) so it's quite understandable that they walk away - it's just a natural reaction of women. Every single "romance" I had with PIED was like this:
    1) meeting women (zero arousal)
    2) seducing ourselves (zero arousal)
    3) kissing etc. (zero arousal)
    4) things aren't going to sex so we lose interest in eachother.

    I never told any girl about PIED though and I think it may have been the mistake. The problem is that if you aren't aroused/have no erection, women will not expect PIED but will either think:
    1) There's something wrong with them and it will hurt their self-esteem,
    2) Other will think there's something wrong with you.
     
  13. xburnerphonex

    xburnerphonex Member

    Two very recent ones.

    https://www.yourbrainrebalanced.com/forum/threads/urge-journal-deezys-success-story.36671/ --- "I was NOT wired to real, warm blooded women. My first attempt at sex was a complete failure. And, instead of seeking help, I retreated into a world of MORE porn for years. It was until I met my latest girlfriend that I realized that my DE and ED was still a problem. I really had to rewire to a real woman and quit porn."

    https://www.yourbrainrebalanced.com/forum/threads/1-year-clean-of-pmo.36739/ ---"REWIRE.is the most important thing.Without my GF i would never saw this results.She gaved my power to do all this thing."

    Two older ones.

    http://www.yourbrainrebalanced.com/forum/threads/im-cured-heres-what-ive-learned.11868/#msg204433 --- "I also can't stress how much a trusting relationship will help you rewire. You don't need to be falling head over heels in love, but if you really trust the girl you're rewiring with, you'll be more comfortable around her, and you'll get over any performance anxiety you may have."

    http://www.yourbrainrebalanced.com/...d-27-years-old-it-took-1-year-3-months.31268/ --- "However for me, rebooting alone wasn’t the miracle cure. I still found that there was work to be done after that. And it’s taken me a year without porn, exploring my sexuality to get my cock working as it should. It is essential to rewire with real women."

    And these are just a few off the top of my head.

    I had a first date with a girl yesterday whilst in flatline and just being around her has loosened up my symptoms. I'm not even that into her, she's not my type, yet I find her objectively attractive and that was enough to give my body a signal to loosen up on withdrawal.

    There's also a success story about forming an emotional bond with a girl as opposed to randomly hooking up with strangers. On a streak prior to my current one, I fell in love with a girl I was emotionally attached to (along with being attracted to her looks) and came out of flatline during that time with a libido I hadn't felt in years. The relationship didn't work out, I got depressed, withdrawal kicked in hard, I ended up MO'ing and now I'm back to square one.

    Again, it depends on the social circles one rolls around in / the girls one targets, I guess. I know of a romantic relationship that has already lasted 3 years without intercourse (!) and they are the most happy couple I personally know of (they're in their 20's btw), whereas most couples that have had regular intercourse have fallen apart already or are constantly bitching about each other. And any woman I dated so far, there was never this expectation within 2-3 dates that we would get physical -- but maybe that's just the women I'm used to dating (or I'm just bad at escalating lol).

    I'm not trying to discredit your experience - if you feel aroused by women within 90 days no PMO, that's great, and, by all means, keep it up! I just don't want to be flatlining for a year or two, before I muster up the courage to rewire, because it might be too late by that time.

    Again, your mileage may vary.
     
  14. TheUnderdog

    TheUnderdog Active Member Staff Member

    I apologize if I came across as harsh.

    Kissing, cuddling, and other bonding behaviors are very beneficial to recovery, which, along with abstinence from PMO, will be more than enough to regain libido and healthy erections.
     
  15. cjm

    cjm Well-Known Member

    can i ask why is it ok to watch porn and jack off to that but not ok to have say, oral sex or be jacked off by a girl? doesn't make sense to me really
     
  16. DemBrainsTho

    DemBrainsTho Member

    I don't think it's entirely necessary, but I really have a feeling that for some of us, it can speed up the process. I am in a similar situation. I started PMO basically at puberty. I remember connecting to girls, having slight libido around them, socializing was progressing reasonably well.

    But then by the time I hit 15, I was fucked. I was PMOing to harder and harder material. Now I don't even experience libido, except after I've gone like 4 months or longer. If you can manage to abstain for a good number of months, I promise you will see gradual changes in your personality. After say 4 months, I started getting aroused from girls in public again, morning wood most days, more assertive personality etc etc..


    I have no religious exemptions, so I will start having sex as soon as I can. Assuming I find a girl I want to do it with. My problem is that I have a habit of relapsing hardcore and erasing all of my progress. I am on day 10 now. Still socially awkward and not confident. But as I stay clean from porn and masturbation, I become braver and more socially intelligent.

    I feel like since we started so young, our natural sex impulses aren't fully developed. We need to wire ourselves to real girls and not to PMO. If you can just stay clean for a prolonged amount of time, you will see the benefits. Keep it up and you will have no problem meeting girls and finding a proper wife. Without sex it may take slightly longer, but as long as we stay clean, we will succeed.
     
  17. Meninist

    Meninist New Member

    I couldn't agree more with this post. When it comes down to it, it is all about porn consumption. You won't have to force yourself to be attracted to women because once your brain starts working properly you will naturally be drawn to real women which leads to another topic. If you are choosing to stay away from real women and also abstaining from porn how do you expect to deal with the natural urge for sexual release? I am not a fan of religion for many reasons and this is one of them.
     
  18. Deleted User

    Deleted User Guest

    That's the main reason for me. All religion is about is sexual suppression & control. This is coming from someone who was big on his faith(Christianity) at one time.

    For me i'm trying to go 6 months abstinence, and then i'm going to reach out to a dating coach to help me with my dating situation. I'm also going incorporate escorts into my recovery as well, if money permits. Month 2 at the moment.....
     
  19. xburnerphonex

    xburnerphonex Member

    What about the countless accounts of people with little sexual experience abstaining for what it seems like forever and being stuck in flatline? You do you, but I'm going to take my chances and try my best to rewire simultaneously to no PMO/MO/O. I wasn't even planning on becoming sexually active currently, but I would like to have my dick in working condition.

    Not going to get into the whole religion aspect of this thread; I'll just say it would truly be a blessing to date a virgin that doesn't mind taking it slow - and instead of waiting for this person to come along, I'll start searching now.
     
  20. niskanen91

    niskanen91 Active Member

    As someone who was into PUA many years ago, I wouldn't recommend "PUAs", "seduction gurus" and "dating coaches" as it is scam and you'll waste your money, while getting nothing out of it (except some mental masturbation, short-term pump etc.). The best way to improve your sexual attractiveness is:
    - getting fit (diet/gym/excercise),
    - improving style,
    - getting social life.

    There's not much philosophy, you'll make mistakes and learn from experience, using PUA stuff is (from my experience) counter-productive. On the other hand, I visited escorts twice in my life and I don't regret it, I actually think it's a good idea.

    @xburnerphonex

    I never said that rewiring is bad, I'd say its impact is neutral at worst and positive (however still muuuuch lower than abstaining from porn) at best, which means that (from my experience) rewiring doesn't hurt recovery and in fact it may help. About the mysterious "flatline", I'm not quite sure if there's a correlation between rewiring and the length of the flatline, e. g. Gabe Deem was in a flatline despite having a girlfriend, while I snapped out of flatline without any rewiring. I think that flatline is a quite complicated thing because what it means is "abnormally low sex-drive", which may be caused by few, different things:
    - stress
    - removing the strongest sexual stimuli our brains know (porn)
    - depression
    - weather
    - other personal problems etc.

    What do you mean by "loosing your symptoms". How your penis reacted when she was around? Tingles? Nothing? Semi-erection? Full erection? I'm really curious.

    @DemBrainsTho

    Once again, from my experience, truth looks different. There's a natural attraction to real women in our brains but porn use kinda "suspended" it. After I gave up porn for few months, I could feel arousal instantly without any rewiring (the girl was hot). When I was using porn, no amount of rewiring helped, dick was limp all the time. Agree with second part of what I quoted though :)
     

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