Discussion in 'Ages 40+' started by devnull, Jul 23, 2017.

  1. devnull

    devnull Member

    Was dreaming about having the opportunity to watch P on my computer last night. Like last time when I was seriously committed to giving up, I dreamed that I kept accidentally stumbling across various tempting links, thumbnails and soft preview images, but kept making the choice not to click, and moving on. It's nice to know the subconscious and conscious minds are aligned.

    I'm convinced that I'll make 'escape velocity' again. It's doing it without M that will be unknown territory. Trying not to think about it too much. Better to deal with immediate/pressing problems, and that isn't one right now.
  2. devnull

    devnull Member

    @HeyRevolver Yes, I am fortunate in that I had racked up around 7 months clean* before diving into 2 months of binge relapses. So it shouldn't be anywhere near as hard as last time.

    *my definition of clean during this period was ~5 minutes of PMO every couple of days, which had no negative ramifications (social, physical, mental) in any area of my life

    Damn, even just writing the above sentence got my inner addict fired up: "Yes, that's the way, just a little bit, but regularly. It'll be fine". Ugh.
  3. NCBob

    NCBob The 11th commandment: Thou shalt not peek:-)

    Well said, devnull:).

    It may help to remember that the pain of growth is mandatory, and the suffering is optional...
  4. ruggerdoug

    ruggerdoug Well-Known Member

    @devnull, I'm as sad your back as glad your back. I remember when you left last year. Thought things were good (and as you explained the job thing) and poof null Devnull ... I thought I had things in good order too ... turns out I hadn't. I didn't ever completely leave but I did disengage quite a bit. You were really helpful for me last year with some of the reading materials you suggested. I have never thought of my addiction as a P problem or an M problem but as a life problem that allows P & M to fit in as self medication. You helped feed my explorations in that thinking.

    One thing I learned is that relapse is a natural part of recovery. So here I am. And so are you. I hope we both quickly get back to that good feeling of purity.

    devnull likes this.
  5. fcjl8

    fcjl8 The only path for me

    Break free brother... you can... you are breaking free!

    You went 7 months clean... awesome.

    Do you think allowing yourself "peeks" at porn no matter how short... might have hurt you a bit?
  6. devnull

    devnull Member

    @ruggerdoug You helped me a lot too! I'm sad to hear of your continuing struggles. Purity.... Oh it's so good. Worth protecting. Of course as purity becomes the new baseline, one forgets how great it is. Until a binge happens, and then it's a 'double drop' straight down into hell.

    @fcjl8 Honestly, I don't know, because I 'maintained' on 5 mins of PMO every few days for so long. It seemed sustainable. I didn't collect, download, bookmark, or log in to any site. I went to a tube, took a video off one of the first couple of pages, and rubbed one out quick. I feel it had no impact on my life other than relieving sexual tension. It was quite normal for me to say aloud 'thank fuck that's over' straight after, before then going and doing something useful, undistracted. But this maintenance may have made me more susceptible to going over the edge and into binging from other triggers, yes. I've no way of telling, really.

    Even just writing about it, the inner addict is saying 'yesss, just watch, don't binge, and it'll be fine...'. Thrilling though the prospect is, a stronger part of me wants to break through all that this time. It at least give it as good a shot as I possibly can.
  7. devnull

    devnull Member

    It's been around 8 days clean.

    I'm now in one of the historically massive trigger/rubbernecking zones, a beach resort. I'll be here for weeks.

    I'm doing OK with it, not letting myself down. I'm not zoning out, I'm maintaining presence. It would be unreasonable not to expect serious sexual energy building challenges in the near future though.

    Right now I feel prepared. But we all know how much that counts for when the addict starts to rage. But for now... I'm OK.
  8. devnull

    devnull Member

    I finally remembered a 40new30 quote I've had on the tip of my tongue for a week...

    "The disease tastes like ice cream and the cure tastes like shit".

    A personal favorite, that one.
  9. bobjes

    bobjes Active Member

    And after a while the cure starts to taste like ice cream (purity) and the disease starts to taste like shit ('double drop' straight down into hell).

    The strange thing is that I still sometimes feel like dabbling into the shit. I see it as not being completely 'whole' yet. Some of my parts still not being aligned.

    @ruggerdoug explained this well in his clarification to you. I can also find quite a few areas in my life that are not 'in sync', my procrastination around work stuff being the biggest atm. The latest GOT episode seems so much more important. :)

    I find myself well insulated from PMO stuff through new routines and connection with others, yet so much more awareness, self knowledge and action to look after is required to become completely free...
  10. ruggerdoug

    ruggerdoug Well-Known Member

    Money quote for sure! Not read it before but so perfect.

    Your 5 minute PMOs (really 5 minutes or did you lose track of yourself and time so they were short still but longer than 5? not that that matters) were my ventures into dating sights and erotica. Had the thought that it wasn't porn and that it wouldn't effect anything. Wrong. Gateway drug that put me right across the line. And then in a weak moment I went through the gate.

    Anyway ... keep working!
    devnull likes this.
  11. fcjl8

    fcjl8 The only path for me

    Stay clean devnull... I know that the beach resort deal will be fine for you brother!

    You've got this!
    devnull likes this.
  12. devnull

    devnull Member

    Nicely pointed out, bobjes! :)
  13. devnull

    devnull Member

    @ruggerdoug regarding the timings, they were around 5 minutes, yeah. Maybe some slightly longer, some shorter. I was primed to go already in terms of sexual energy, and just used it as accelerant. The fact that I didn't click around, looking to extend/heighten was probably key in keeping it under control.
  14. devnull

    devnull Member

    I dreamed last night that I was doing sort of 'real life P', ie getting to see real women's bodies in arousing ways. Sounds like the inner addict trying to find loopholes!

    In my awake state I'm observing impulses to throw myself into the P hole, effectively flushing my life down the toilet in the process. Still haunted by recently viewed content. Feeling mournful, but hanging in there.
    Billy B. likes this.
  15. Billy B.

    Billy B. PMO is NOT an option!

    It will help. And it may seem difficult at first but actually, I reckon, it makes things easier. For me it did. For me, I feel like it was the only way I could do it.
  16. devnull

    devnull Member

    The addict brain came up with a new 'option': Find a way to do PMO sessions but without the downsides. For example by using medication to offset the effects.

    I remember over a decade ago, when I used to do quite a bit of ecstasy, we used to load up on 5htp as a barrier against the chemical lows that would come afterwards (it's a serotonin precursor). I was reminded of this by the mention of 5htp in 4n3's thread.

    By golly I wish I could have my cake and eat it: the massive highs of PMO but with manageable lows, manageable enough so that I could function fairly normally: socialize, play sport, be effective in my job.

    The addict inside is already subtly planning some kind of a binge when I get home, I can feel it. I won't be home for quite some time though, about 2 weeks.

    The familiar mental and physical tension, the familiar thoughts flooding me: why would you give it up, it makes you feel so alive, how can you never see those things again, it's a waste, it's worth it, life won't be worth living without it, you don't even want a relationship anyway, why are you even doing it, just go work in a brain dead job paying just enough so that you can PMO and not have job performance suffer, just give up your life for it, it'll be worth it, you know it's what you want, you want this more than anything else in life, you were stupid for giving it up, why the fuck did you delete all that amazing stuff, you fool, what are you doing, you don't even know...

    I feel like moaning, wailing and banging my head on the table in front of me, which is exactly what I did many times the first time I quit, but I must suffer in silence and physical camouflage because I have no privacy on this trip.

    I'll probably be ok again in a few hours, but right now I'm suffering quite a bit. It's day 9, just for my own reference.
  17. devnull

    devnull Member

    I found a bit of privacy and PMO'd yesterday, bringing the chemical torment to an end. I may also PMO tonight, or in the coming days. I'll post again here when I have rebuilt some resolve, because right now I don't have much.
  18. titan_transcendence

    titan_transcendence Well-Known Member

    I have also used 1001 false reasons to continue using P. Many what you wrote above sounds very familiar for me also. I think that only thing that has made the difference for me now, is that now I dont think P as pics/vids of nude women, sex acts or thrill anymore. Now I view it as drug which have messed my brain and life very badly, should I say almost destroyed it, alongside with my SO's life too. Do I want to continue using this poison, which will never deliver any good things in the end? You felt so good without P just short time ago. Realize the emptiness of it, how its our true enemy, disguising as a great "hobby" or "entertainment." Its what holding us back from our real life and changes in it.
    Its nothing but lies.. Our true life is going on all the time, clock is ticking.. how we will use the remainder of the time left to us? Of course, the choice will be always ours to take - will we try to live in this real world or in fantasy world, where its just more painful to return to reality sooner or later, because the time between has been completely wasted.
    Boxer17, 40New30 and devnull like this.
  19. devnull

    devnull Member

    Thanks TT. You write eloquently and persuasively.

    So I'll try again now, but the 'no M' idea has to be dropped. I need to be able to drain off a buildup of energy before it gets unmanageable (like that one did).

  20. fcjl8

    fcjl8 The only path for me

    Hey Devnull... it is a different path for each of us... I could not do it your way. But it us your way not mine. Stay well sir.
    devnull likes this.
  21. learningOrder

    learningOrder Member

    Hey devNull, I'm sorry to hear about the internal struggle. Those moments can be really hard.
    devnull likes this.
  22. ruggerdoug

    ruggerdoug Well-Known Member

    @devnull, my resolve is shot, too. Why'd you come back? Me, too. Buck up, dude! Push back. Giving in isn't why you are here. Being weak in the moment is part of being human. You are an awesome human and an awesome man. Push back on the urge!

    Pot calling the kettle black. Let's push back together.

    Boxer17, devnull and bobjes like this.
  23. devnull

    devnull Member

    Thanks for the comments, guys.

    @ruggerdoug good post!

    I'm exasperated and exhausted. Multiple times in the last few days I've sworn off and then relapsed a few hours later. My willpower is in the toilet.

    I think I have to seek additional contact with other addicts, i.e. engage in phone/sms/messenger relationships. Unfortunately there are no physical addict meetups where I live currently. All the US SAA meetings are at silly-O'clock in the morning for my location, but I will probably have to attend them anyway to get a sponsor.

    Basically right now I just don't think I can make it on my own. I need 1:1 interaction.
  24. ruggerdoug

    ruggerdoug Well-Known Member

    You make this feel like fight club. Is there two of us? Or just one with an alter ego?

    I am having trouble finding the resolve internally to stop bad habits as well as start good ones.

    Keep at it. I am.
  25. devnull

    devnull Member

    It's day 2 of being clean. I still have a terrible PMO hangover. Dark mood, depressed, headache, brain fog, sick to my stomach, lethargy. I feel like a ghoul. This addiction destroys me - my health, my prospects, my integrity and honesty, my self respect, my relationships, my life.

    When I was recently binging I was having thoughts of quitting my job, the job that I've worked so hard to get and maintain, just so I could binge all the time and not bother with work until my savings ran out. Batshit crazy. My binges were also very risky, considering the circumstances I am in (not at home, hardly any privacy).

    I'm super low right now, but trying to be positive and hopeful. I will try to get some supplements to take the edge off this hangover (5HTP and maybe ginseng). I re-read a load of addiction/recovery literature. Especially hard-hitting are the multiple descriptions of how O-surfing (what I do for hours and hours and hours) is particularly damaging to the brain, impulse control and so on, due to the constant bathing in dopamine.

    Soon I will have to face going back to work in this awful state, which will surely look odd to my coworkers. But hey ho, there's nothing I can do about it other than trying to live healthily from now on and try to recover. I've just got to suffer whatever comes. I can't relapse though, I just can't.

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