Break on through to the other side

Discussion in 'Ages 40+' started by Gil79, Feb 16, 2019.

  1. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    Can you do your job while at the same pursuing something else? I've asked myself this same question. Usually the answer is another question "why are you so lazy, Saville?!" lol With young kids it can be hard to switch gears, but sometimes just allowing more minutes in the day toward a hobby/passion can move toward something else.
    Gil79 likes this.
  2. Gil79

    Gil79 Seize the day

    Not so much to report. Only minor urges to fantasize. Last time giving in to anything (OK, that was PMO), was 2 months ago. Hope the evening goes well and that my wife and me can have some quality time together. This morning I grabbed her ass and kissed her and she seemed to like it, hehe

    Thanks @NCBob, I had to read it a couple of times, but it makes a lot of sense to me. I will let it sink in a bit longer.

    Thanks @Matt2020. Sometimes I do have the ambition to get higher up. Sometimes I even think that I can do the job of the people there better. But actually those people have certain skills (dealing with stress) that I don't think I have. I believe that one can learn everything, but some things are just not worth the struggle.

    At the moment no, but in general yes. Things with the kids should get better soon which will give me some space to find my way and switch gears. In my profession standing still is really going backwards, so at a certain moment time really comes to take action. I really believe that when you picture something really hard, even if it just a general feeling, then you will automatically move towards that picture/ feeling in real life. I am sure that there's something that I can do that is somehow related to the career or the experience i have been building.
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  3. Gil79

    Gil79 Seize the day

    So, we did have a good time last night. I could really be in the moment and enjoy. No shame, no self-consciousness, no fantasies. Afterwards I felt happy. We both went to bed content and this morning everything seemed so calm and in peace. The kids were playing and we were even able to have a conversation during breakfast.

    In the shower this morning, I again realized how much I can enjoy the sex with my wife. Last week I wrote how my sexual shame is slowly disappearing and how this connects us sexually. I then realized that I have actually never really enjoyed sex. I have some good memories of very young age of 'playing doctor' with girlfriends, but before I had my real first sexual encounter at age 17, I had already been fantasy-masturbating on a daily basis for 6 years or so. I remember that experience as very awkward and the only thing I wanted was get out of there. During that time I started having sex with more girls, but I always felt very awkward and probably I was drunk most of the time. Also with more long-term relationships during my twenties I was never really able to enjoy. I always thought that what made me uncomfortable was the PE. I start realizing now that what made me uncomfortable was the shame and self-consciousness and that the PE was actually a result of this. I met my wife at age 30 and the sex had been quite good since the beginning. Still I was avoiding sex most of the time, even if I was actually turned-on. Sometimes that led to awkward situations (why would 30 y/o people go to bed on saturday night and sleep?!). Ofcourse I was also using a lot of porn and fantasy-masturbation at that time (3 years before I encountered this site). I remember going on holidays with my wife for 2 weeks. My mind was super-occupied with sexual fantasies and I remember edging under the shower all the time, but we did not have sex that holiday at all! But here, after 10 years of being together, having sex more and less frequent, and reducing FPMO to an absolute minimum, things are really getting better!
  4. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    I felt similarly about sex, I think. It felt like a job, sometimes. In my case it was because I had to please the matriarch. I wasn't allowed to enjoy sex for the sake of it, because ultimately it was my responsibility to make sure my woman came first and had a great time; my enjoyment was secondary.

    Your personal growth is quite amazing, Gil. :)
  5. Living

    Living Well-Known Member

    Really good to hear @Gil79! What both you and @Saville describe about sex sounds kinda familair. I never had PE, but I do think I have been driven a lot but how I thought sex should be and since I watched porn a lot that led to some very unrealistic views. In turn that has made me more frustrated and such which didn't particularly make things easier.
  6. Matt2020

    Matt2020 Member

    Your post made me think about this too, and apart from maybe a few years in my 20s, Ive been the same since. It felt like a chore, and P was much more enjoyable.

    Your progress (and others here) gives me hope for an enjoyable sex life in the future.:)
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  7. Gil79

    Gil79 Seize the day

    Last night in bed my wife was snoring. I got super fed-up and I got serious thoughts of going downstairs and watch porn. The thoughts stayed for a while and I could feel how it would make me feel. I would feel a bliss. All the tiredness and all the worries would just disappear instantly, because it would be just me and those soothing colorfull images and sounds of the most beautiful women with beautiful boobs and pussy. I did not go downstairs. I asked my wife to stop, which helped a bit, and I fell asleep. Porn is such an easy way out of everything. It is just always there. And if it's not, there is an endless source of unlimited fantasies available. At these times I have to be aware for what I am doing this. I am doing this for my own health, for my masculinity, for the relationship with my wife, for the interaction with my children, for the interaction with all human beings I encounter, for making the right decisions and for being the center of my own life.

    The anger of a few weeks back has really dissolved. I feel quite good, with here and there some anxiety. Nothing I can't handle. I just remembered something that @A New Man once told me that he experienced anger around day 40 of his reboots(s). I checked it, and indeed I have had this anger more often at around day 40 and this time again (between day 41 and 47 post-PMO). This shows me that what I am doing is the right thing and that I have to keep going.

    Thanks @Saville, @Living and @Matt2020! Yeah, in my case it is also the pleasing the matriarch (or at least the girl woman on who's validation and approval I am so dependent). I am still in the process of breaking that habit also in a non-sexual way, but doing so much better than before!
  8. NCBob

    NCBob The 11th commandment: Thou shalt not peek:-)

    Great effort, Gil79:) Feeling our uncomfortable emotions is essential to this process, and porn is so intoxicatingly effective in numbing them out. You're showing great strength and willingness to feel through them:D
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  9. Gil79

    Gil79 Seize the day

    I remember from a while back there was rebooter here who wrote 'my wounds are open'. In other words, I am ready for this. I take away the porn band-aid and I will face anything that comes out. This is how I feel the last couple of days. I feel a lot of pain and anxiety in my body. A part of it is just being nervous of the upcoming change (kids back to daycare and school, picking up again on work), but a part also consists of feelings which were always there. Feelings I have to face and accept that they are part of me until they think it is the time to go. On the one hand I feel a constant tendency to fantasize, but on the other hand I feel a huge barrier between the rational me and that part of me that needs the escape. Physiologically this is maybe the 'stronger' influence of the frontal lobe. It gives me a feeling of control, but I am aware that this balance can easily change.

    I have been in this state of reboot before, but have always been going back to fantasies and porn. What would be different this time? I think this is an important question to ask myself. Otherwise history will just repeat itself. And although my addiction has strongly weakened, I really want to finish it off this time. A part of me sees myself like that. Yet another part of me is saying that I will never be able to escape from porn. I guess this is the good wolf/ bad wolf analogy and I just have to keep feeding the good wolf. Things that are different this time is that I am way closer to myself. I am meditating, I am mindful of my feelings, Spend a lot of time with my family, and have sex with my wife. This is largely the result of a curious virus from China that decided to travel along with a different host and with that shock the whole planet. Now that I am going to work more, the stress will also increase. I really have to make sure I stay close to myself. It is important that I keep the focus on that.

    Thanks @NCBob!
  10. Living

    Living Well-Known Member

    Ofcourse I could point out that it's a constant battle and that every victory no matter how small matters, but I do understand that you really want to finish it off this time. In the end that's what we all want, right? We get tired of the fighting and want the battle to be over. I still believe that should be possible. Perhaps a good way to look at things is that being done with it forever is desirable, but that being done with it for a while is at least acceptable. I mean all that being mindful, the time you spend your family and the sex with your wife will not dissolve when you do slip. All the energy and effort you put into that was obviously well spend. No slip can take that away from you.
    Gil79, Matt2020 and Thelongwayhome27 like this.
  11. Gil79

    Gil79 Seize the day

    Some of the feelings this morning:

    - Enjoying my morning wood without having the need to do anything with it
    - Anxious while getting the baby's ready for daycare
    - Angry and annoyed in the interaction with my wife
    - Thrilled by the interaction with a young woman from daycare
    - Grateful and content while spending time with my son in the garden

    All of these quite intense feelings all happened in a period of just 4 hours or so. I accept them all for what they are. No need to overthink.

    Something really intriguing I realized is how my memory starts working better when I reboot for longer period. I have encountered this before and always thought that it was more the process of emotions coming from the deep together with the associated images. But lately I have so many associative memories coming up, things I haven't thought about for such a long time, that I really think that this is also a physiological thing. Probably in the same way that other cognitive functions are improving, the memory part of the brain is just working better. This feels really good and is really a good reason to purge this shit out of my life.

    When you think about it it is so logical. Fantasy and pron can take up so much time of your day, and you're just training that very small part of your brain just to get a kick. Just to not be bothered by difficulties in life. But the consequence is that all other functions get weak.

    Thanks @Living! I agree with you that a slip or a relapse doesn't really matter on the long run. This is also the reason that I stopped actively counting days. All of this is a step-wise process of decreasing FPMO while at the same time building a more satisfying life. However, I am also well aware that a slip can really lead one back to more frequent FPMO. Addicts tend to look at things black/white, and i try to avoid that, but I know that it is possible to have a life without acting out at all, and that is really where I want to be. On the other hand I also realize that this might be fear-driven: that I really fear to fall back into old patterns. Well, one way to go and that is forward!! :):):):):):):) (yeah 7, you see that right!).
  12. Living

    Living Well-Known Member

    Proud I am, young padawan!

    This indeed. I think it's not just the staying away from porn, but also the working towards your values and just doing things you find important. Kinda like you train your awesomeness-muscles and you simply neglect you PMO-muscle. Or to put it a bit sciency: you train the parts of your brain that are involved with long term goals and neglect the the parts that are involved with your short term goals. I have come across similar ideas in several books.
    Last edited: May 12, 2020
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  13. Gil79

    Gil79 Seize the day

    Weird morning. Dropped the baby's at daycare and our son at school. My son's first schoolday. The baby's really have to get used to the change and I guess that for my son it is also quite something different. The last 2 months we spent so much time together and now he will be on his own in school. I think he will really enjoy it, but I also feel a bit anxious about it. But maybe I am projecting my own anxiety on him. Where I live now, it is a quite small community, I just don't feel at home that much. I have the feeling that everybody knows everybody and I feel I don't really belong. Sometimes I think we can really build a life here, and other times I just really want to move away. I love living on the country side, but I also do love to live in or close to a city. To be a bit more anonymous, and have more possibilities for sports, going out, culture, etc. But for now, I just have these feelings and that is normal and that is OK.

    Yesterday I got a letter from the tax office. I am getting quite some tax money back. Together with the salary of this month I am able to finally pay off my study dept which was €45000 ten years ago. Man, I have felt so bad about this dept. Especially right after my study I really had no money at all because my whole salary basically went to paying rent and paying my debt. But also last couple of years I have really transferred every extra euro I had to pay off, and now I am finally there. For a long time I have been fantasizing about this moment. Especially about sending a message to my father, mother and sister that I payed off my debt. It would be a very passive aggressive message, cause a part of my thinks it is unfair that I had this debt and that it is their fault. My father was an alcoholic who spend all his money on booze. After he quit drinking he inherited a large sum of money and he used part of it to pay off my sisters study dept (at least €20000 of it). Before I got a chance to ask for the same, all his money was already spent. I never wanted to bring this up to my sister, because she must be aware of it and I don't want to be that person who jeopardizes the bond with his sister over money. Still it does bother me, and therefore I was planning to send this message (something like: here I payed for my own study, who of you can say the same?!). My mother was actually able to pay for my study or at least help me financially, but she didn't want to. She did lend me money though, which was the first thing I payed off. But what to I gain with sending such a message? I will probably make all of them feel bad and maybe guilty. Maybe they don't even care at all. And in any case, it will not make me feel better. It is not that I want their money. I am quite proud that I did this all by myself (well, the state does subsidize a large part of it, but still....). I am 41 years old. I am mature and independent, both financially and emotionally. I should just let it go. I will make a nice dinner somewhere next week with a nice bottle of wine to celebrate this with my wife. And I think that soon I will buy myself a nice watch. I haven't worn a watch for 20 years, but now I am thinking about it. It might seem a bit shallow or materialistic, but I really feel that it is a nice present to myself to show that I am proud of myself. And besides it is handy cause I have 3 children that have to be at different places and at different times all the time ;-). One thing for sure, I will start saving money now (my wife already started) for the study of our children. I really don't want them to have this unnecessary struggle. Nonetheless, despite all this stuff I wrote, I am very well aware that these are luxury problems of a man brought up in a western country. Still had to get it off my chest. I will leave all of this behind me and continue to lay out my plan for the future.

  14. Pete McVries

    Pete McVries Well-Known Member

    Congratulations, that is awesome!

    Money is a weird thing to deal with within the family. It completely teared apart the family of my father's side after the mother of my father declared who will get what after she passes away. To make it worse, the brother of my father couldn't be reasoned with that the split of the heritage is very unfair and a farce to be honest. Not to mention that the mother of my father also sort of disowned my two siblings and me when you think that the brother of my father only has one child...

    So, I can very well understand your feelings. It must be hard not to feel bitter or even passive aggressive about it. Most likely, I would love to shove that win in everybody's faces but like you said, it's probably better to let it go and celebrate it with your loved ones. Because that is a great achievement and should be treated as such. And sadly there is nothing to be gained (but anger and disappointment) by contacting your sister and your parents. Because the way you described the situation, it seems like they don't want to hear anything about how unfairly you were treated. They would probably even deny it or relativize it.

    You should feel really proud! :)
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  15. Matt2020

    Matt2020 Member

    When i read your journal @Gil79, i feel you've achieved a great deal and have a lot to be proud of yourself for. Paying off your study dept is yet another great achievement so well done.
    I agree with @Pete McVries, it wouldn't help you or the relationship with your family to send a passive aggressive message.
    At some point in the future if they ask about your watch, you can always say it was gift to yourself for clearing the debt but don't do it now out of emotion.
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  16. Living

    Living Well-Known Member

    Congratulations on the study debt! That must feel soooooo good. I have a pretty solid study debt myself and I would really like to get rid of it. I actually have enough money in the bank to repay the debt, but with the current low interest and our situation it's not really that interesting to pay it off. My girlfriend and I have decided that when we want to buy a house we just pay off one of our debts, so we can get a bit better mortgage, but it's also nice to have some money in the bank. But man, I would love to be able to say that I have paid it all off:) You can be very proud of that, especially considering the circumstances! But yeah, making a passive-aggressive remark towards your parents and your sister is probably not going to make anyone of you more happy. I can imagine that you want to give them a bit of a burn, but in the end that might put a black spot on this grand victory and that wouldn't be worth it.

    Oh, and do buy the watch! I'm always a bit jealous with my girlfriend when I give her jewelry. There is just so much nice stuff for women. I know there is jewelry for men too, but the only proper jewelry (in my eyes at least) is a solid watch. I have never worn a watch since my 'flikflak', but when I had my first serious job and then when I had my big project for my own company I bought myself a proper watch. Wearing them reminds me of things I have accomplished. There is absolutely nothing shallow about that. Buying a watch because you have paid of something you have worked very hard for is a well-deserved reward.
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  17. Eternity

    Eternity Patience

    Awesome being rid of it! I'd say this is the best action to take. Being free of it is more than enough. I'm now stuck with a house loan that I will be paying off for the next 20 years, but it doesn't bother me as much as the study debt did. The worst about it is that I've hardly had any use for what I read.

    A watch is nice, I didn't realize how much I missed one until I forgot it at my brother's for two months. Being able to check the time without a phone is worth a lot to me. If you go for a "bling" one it will also look classy (I only got a sports watch - I'm very much an all function/no style type of person. Maybe I need to change this...)
    -Luke-, Gil79 and Pete McVries like this.
  18. Thelongwayhome27

    Thelongwayhome27 Well-Known Member

    Damn Gil, what a post. Congrats ! I have to agree with everyone and say that it sounds like you did the graceful thing by not going ahead with that message - in the very least not in a spontaneous way (so hard to resist those!). It's hard to explain these things, but from a spiritual standpoint, it seems like the good choice man. And at the very least - you can always write something later. But once written in a fiery way, it cannot be taken back ! I also don't think these are "first world problems" that are actually "not much a fuss". Hell, in the "first world" I think lives can still be pretty darn challenging, despite the comfort. Mentally it can be quite challenging. Way to go man !

    I think it was Ghandi who who wrote that, to him, the only spiritual practice is the practice of renouncement.

    We find freedom when we renounce to our grudges instead of acting on them, even if it's so tempting at times. Well, at least this is what I think.
    Last edited: May 13, 2020
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  19. @Gil79 way to go man! That is a great victory and deserves to be celebrated with your loved ones, and a present to yourself!

    You might not realize it, but I believe that not shoving this in your family’s face as a passive aggressive act, is an even bigger accomplishment than paying off the debt. It shows great character and self-control.

    If you still have an okay relationship with them, you could always bring it up in a humble way though, in an open conversation without judgement. To be able to tell them that it was hard for you to pay off your debt without getting help, while your sister did get help. That it felt unfair to you (or other feelings you might have had because of it). If they make an argument out of it or disrespect you, than that’s on them. At least you were honest. Dust off, forgive, and be free from that burden :) (I am well aware this is easier said than done).
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  20. Gil79

    Gil79 Seize the day

    @Pete McVries, @Matt2020, @Living, @Eternity, @Thelongwayhome27 and @BoughtWithBlood, thank you guys so much for reading and your replies. It is difficult to express to you how helpful this is. The fact that I could finally get this of my chest, being heard by you and hear your perspectives on it, has completely taken away the weight of this issue. I will pay off my dept and close this whole period and situation in a positive way. And that is that. Those feelings might come back some day, but then I will think back about this moment and i am sure I can let it go.

    Otherwise doing OK. Feel some stuff is going on inside my brain. Changing emotional state and low in energy. Will sit it out. . . .

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