Anyone MGTOW?

Discussion in 'Social Advice' started by Amaris, Aug 17, 2016.

  1. Rick_C137

    Rick_C137 New Member

    Hi, really cool that there is one MGTOW thread.
    Maybe we can ressurect it a bit.

    The last weeks I delved deep into the MGTOW community, and it puzzled me for a while, but they make a rational argument there.
    I think Sandman and TFM made a good intro videos for that philosophy and I think we should get rid of the notion of MGTOW = "woman hating".
    Ok, maybe there some guys in the rage phase, who post some stupid shit, but that's not the general attitude of MGTOW.

    The rest of your post is very accurate. You just have to evaluate the following things from an rational perspective:
    "love and marriage and idealistic end" is this societal fairy tale,
    "not chasing women to my detriment,being rejected, submitting to marriage" mkaes sense and sounds like you freed yourself from the plantation,
    "marriage (bad business deal for men)" is exactly true.
     
  2. Johhny Bravo

    Johhny Bravo Every temptation is another chance of life revival

    MGTOW is one of the ugliest movements to have been created. It is a poison towards a man and their genuiness with women.

    It is a castration. A social one first then a psychological one. You are healthier cutting your own balls off but remaining in the world of women and men.

    MGTOW is a misunderstanding of life. It is a distrust towards women, and a deeper distrust towards life.

    I have never watched a MGTOW man look sincerely happy. They are miserable. Angry. Repressed sadness or anger. And the movement has so much energy that of course it captures people like young men. They interpret the energy for "oh see this is the truth" but its not.

    Truth is inclusive. Not exclusive. Mgtow is psychological castration due to intense pain men have gone through. I empathise. But I do not support.

    Redpill is toxic. The humans in there are good. The men there are good men in pain. The movement is akin to the gas chambers; dont go in.
     
  3. Londoner

    Londoner Well-Known Member

    There are some elementary truths that Red Pill is built upon - one example is that Nice Guys finish last.
     
  4. Johhny Bravo

    Johhny Bravo Every temptation is another chance of life revival

    Id say thats something broader than purely exclusive to Red Pill. I do not know Red Pill too much. But I know enough.

    If a "nice guy" is what we refer to as someone deeply inauthentic, someone who feels so inferior around other men and women and copes with pleasantries.....This type of person wont garner any respect because he has none for himself and his being.

    Regardless if he finishes last or not; even if he finishes first, the ultimate crime is comprising themselves.

    In early days of MGTOW, there seemed to be emphasis on being authentic even over attaining success with women. I favour this.

    But in that case Id label Red Pill as another movement in being authentic. If this is what it really is, why should one label it 'red pill'?

    There is an ideology they push. The ideology is my distaste.
     
  5. Rick_C137

    Rick_C137 New Member

    I don't want to derail in some pointless discussion, but still tempting to argue some things ...

    It is a reaction movement to feminism. You can clearly see that in the google (geographic) trends.
    It really needs extreme things have to happen to men, that they decide to go against their own biological drive.

    Feminism is the cancer which started this in the first place. MGTOW is the cure/chemo.
    But we usually now this ends for the patient (in this case society).

    People can talk and judge MGTOW as they want. The true MGTOW don't care anyway. What actually annoys me, that nobody talks about the causes (e.g. feminism & men treated unjustly by society).

    Funny, you could basically write something quite similar about feminism / just replace mgtow with femism.

    Anyway, I still refer to the intro videos of Sandman & TFM. Debunk them first.
    Then we can maybe talk about all of these sweeping generalizations.

    Why is red pill toxic ?
    I actually agree that many men there are in pain. Now I ask you why ?
    Also consider in your answer the men, who have been falsely accused of whatever ... and all the good and faithful men, who have been taken to the cleaners.

    Red pill consists of several different parts which are quite different, btw ...
    And the anger is quite understandable, when men have been lied to for so long.

    The real red pill are just basic biological facts. And that we as humans don't differ *that* much from other species in the animal kingdom. This has consequences seen in our behaviour.
    Society nowadays seems to ignore the biological facts (due to a certain other ideology). As people don't understand what is happening they start asking questions themselves and why that was is told by society/politicians/the msm doesn't match reality.

    What exactly is the ideology in your opinion ?
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2019
  6. Johhny Bravo

    Johhny Bravo Every temptation is another chance of life revival

    Doesnt matter what the ideology is. Any ideology is dogmatic. I cant tell you what it is. Dont know enough about it.

    If MGTOW helps the individual, good. But the individual must not be swallowed by the ocean of thought.

    Yes many feminist are also bitter and their food has no more spice in it. Feminists and labels like this, if someone wears it, these people are never happy. Angry.

    Redpill is toxic because it labels people as competitive, blood thirsty animals that are driven by nothing more than their DNA. Hypergamy is just an opinion but RedPill disputes it as fact. People are humans.

    The solution is to be a human and not buy into ideologies that support scarcity and limited availability of Life or endorse how tough and hard the world is.

    The 21 convention...Ive never seen so many serious, beaten down, heavy, depressed men. The atmosphore is gloomy as.

    Yes female idiots and manipulators exist. Some can do cruel things. MGTOW is a good spotter of this and is what the pickup community always lacked.

    If MGTOW helps the individual, it is good. But one must break free of it and see beyond it and think for themselves.

    Someone who thinks for themselves wont label themself as mgtow.
     
  7. Rick_C137

    Rick_C137 New Member

    Ok, I guess I can agree to this. It's not good to become radical in any ideology.

    Anyway, red pill is for me the reaction to decade long brainwashing and telling bullshit, mostly by society, schools and media
    and finally telling just basic facts & the truth.
    MGTOW looked for me like the just the cold rationalisation that western society doesn't care about men and men are better served to look after their own wellbeing. I don't see a problem there.

    I had a short chat with some others about that as well and the result was, that MGTOW is not an ideology. It's more like guidance. Look rationally at the cards you were dealt. And now decide for yourself, what you will do.

    But if you don't know the movement in detail, then you can't criticise it.
    Did you watch the two mentioned intro videos ? Do you have any arguments against what is said there ?

    I'd say metoo, the divorce rates, family courts, etc are saying something different.
    But again, there may be exceptions to the rule, yes. I don't dispute that, but I wont base my worldview on exceptions.
    I just stick to the most rational explanation which fits the data. Nothing more, nothing less.
    You're free to do the same.

    Sorry, even Stefan Molyneux said this in many of his videos. Scarcity of ressources is the base of our life and by denying it, you're denying reality. Especially in the northern hemisphere, where you have only half the year for agriculture and you have to plan accordingly.
    And printing money wont solve the problem. That just defers it.

    To this 21 convention thing. Haven't heard of this yet. I just looked it up. Looks like some fuss/hype, some guys got together and hijacking the label to make money. This is already one bad sign.
    Basically same as with PUA before ...

    But labeling / judging / shaming them as beaten down, heavy, depressed wont help you nor them. Instead, you should ask yourself or them, what happened to them. Why did they become that way.

    If you actually listened to what the main channels are saying, you'd know, that they empower the men to self-actualise. Idk why someone would say that this is bad. It is exactly that: It is your life. Think for yourself and do what you want to do. (While warning you of the laws & society)
    And many men, if done correctly, drop "the label" sooner or later and just leave.
    Or they stay to help other men.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2019
  8. Johhny Bravo

    Johhny Bravo Every temptation is another chance of life revival

     
  9. Johhny Bravo

    Johhny Bravo Every temptation is another chance of life revival

    Yeah I think conditioning to people in general is bad.

    Good points.
     
  10. Ruhtra

    Ruhtra Member

    I used to be a misogynist/MGTOW but not anymore. What changed my mind was spending more time with real women, flirting etc.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2019
    Johhny Bravo likes this.
  11. Johhny Bravo

    Johhny Bravo Every temptation is another chance of life revival

    Yes I also observed this.

    Men who dont talk with women alot weirdly 'float' over to the MGTOW ideas.

    Men who talk to a variety of women frequently make their own conclusions.

    Just my observation. Everyone is unique.

    I respect Paul Elam and admire him, though I do not consume his content these days.
     
    Pete McVries likes this.

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