Anyone MGTOW?

Discussion in 'Social Advice' started by Amaris, Aug 17, 2016.

  1. mik

    mik Guest

    You must be really attractive then, or really wealthy, or whatever else that might put you at an objective 9 or 10 for smv. Most guys go into a relationship because it is the only route available for physical or emotional intimacy. As an objective 7, I can't just find attractive girls (above an objective 5) to hang out with on a whim with no strings attached, and expect to be having sex with them.
    Sex outside a relationship isn't the most attractive option for avoidance of stds either, and condoms kill the enjoyment.

    There are very few women who will just want to hang out with the average guy outside a formal relationship, and a lot of those women who will, just aren't being upfront and honest about their goals to chain you into a marriage with kids.
    The majority of women just aren't as interested in physical intimacy as men are. Nwalt for sure, but women are very much relationship driven, and if your an average guy looking for short term intimacy, then you kind of have to play along with the desires of women.

    I'd rather play along within reason (short term monogamous relationship, buying the occasional dinner/cheap gift, no marriage/cohabitation) rather than have to pay top$ for it and wear a condom every time.

    The guys who say that escorts are cheaper in the long run than relationships, are the same guys who lost everything in a divorce. They were either stupid enough to get married/cohabitate or they knew the risks going in.
    Escorts are not at all cheaper than short term monogamous relationships, not unless you consider the 3000-4000$ I've spent in the last 4 months cheap, and that's just for weekly funny business.

    Escorts suck, I had one just casually admit to shooting hard drugs. As soon as I have the opportunity, I'm getting a vasectomy and getting into a monogamous relationship, wonderful condom free sex and some emotional intimacy to go along with it :D
     
  2. I agree with you, Mr Fish. A lot of the "self-improvement" philosophy of PUA and MGTOW are all about: be alpha, be an uber-man and take charge of your life, create your own destiny, etc. This advice is only for the men that are fortunate enough to have opportunities to use this advice. Few human beings can have the X-Factor. Self-improvement gives the unrealistic impression that everyone potentially has the X-Factor - and you can too! It's individualistic puritan work ethic on steroids. But not every man is able-bodied, in good health, has talent, has a personality suited to leadership, etc. It can result in incredible frustration and dissatisfaction because you see that your life is not going in the direction you desire. The keyword is desire because according to Buddhist philosophy, desire is the root of all suffering.

    At the end of the day, the biggest problem with the self-improvement mindset is that it stops men from feeling "whole" until they have improved enough. That you don't have the right to feel good enough until you are exceptional enough. How about feeling good enough because you are simply alive and human? Why wait until you have "improved" before you feel whole? You are already whole, so why not just start now?

    I'm not saying just be happy sitting around eating chips and watching porn. But that doesn't mean you can't actually be happy sitting around eating chips and watching porn (it certainly makes me happy!). Don't psychologically crucify yourself and self-flagellate because you still do things you think you shouldn't do.
     
  3. I'm trying it, but I catch feelings quickly, and I hate when girls know how to play with them.
     
  4. Universal

    Universal Guest

    Agreed.

    I always find a bit weird labeling yourself with "ist" or "ism" especially with new things/groups because they're so volatile and dynamic and they all come with a set of assumptions. No people shouldn't assume shit about you but in the real world not everyone is that objective. When you label yourself with anything you end up having to bring a whole bunch of caveats to the conversation and usually end up committing a sort of 'no true Scotsman' fallacy. It's much more pragmatic to discuss specific points and personal principles.

    For example when you meet a christian you can be pretty confident they're most likely pretty moderate, liberal, probably don't hate gays, but they'll pray and drink alcohol etc. this is mostly because it has been long established with time what "christian" usually means. But when you meet a feminist you don't know what the fuck you're in for, a bra burner who believes men should be castrated or someone who's interested in equality for both sexes and is much closer to egalitarianism.

    Principle number 1 should be that other principles can change. And if that's your number one principle then it doesn't make much sense to label yourself as x/ism/ist with pre-determined principles.
     
  5. Mik2

    Mik2 Aka NwaltRed

    You just laid down a sound piece of advice there friend ;)
    I spent so much time running/swimming/weight lifting, thinking that if I just got those six pack abs then women would finally flock to me.
    Then when that wasn't working, I thought maybe if I was just wealthier.

    It took me a while to realize that good women don't care that much about massive amounts of wealth and muscle mass/ low body fat percentages. They care about confidence and self esteem. Those are 2 qualities that can either be built up artificially/externally in a never ending chase to be "better", or they can come from within :)
     
    EatMySleazyPancakes33 likes this.
  6. urgesarehell

    urgesarehell Member

    MGTOW got hijacked by autistic PUA wannabes and fat old dudes with Filipina mail-order brides. It seems like every modern social/political movement becomes a rallying call for the worst types of extremists. I like the core ideas behind MGTOW, but I think I'll just stick to myself and work towards general self-improvement. I guess that is MGTOW in a way.
     
  7. newguy1

    newguy1 Member

    Still better than the sick and very extremist NOFAP cult you seem to belong to.
     
  8. NewTerritories

    NewTerritories virtual

    MGTOW has its good and bad sectors. Woman-hating aspect is one negative aspect that's often discussed. Here's another one, I'd argue it could be called man-hating, the promotion of base hedonism, resulting in an attitude of anti-masculinity. The notion that prostitution and porn liberates men sexually, with no negative effects, and the dream of the ultimate escape via virtual reality simulated girlfriends and sex-robots.

    Now, these futuristic ideas are considered lame, for losers, a sign of male weakness. A source of ridicule in popular media. MGTOWs see these reactions as rooted in some gynocentric tendency to suppress men's interests. This combined with the feminist anti-porn stance (note: not universal) provokes a defence mechanism, an intensification of the presumably pro-male pro-porn stance.

    The idea of a pro-male anti-porn stance is now on the table. Growing in influence, hopefully!
     
  9. NewTerritories

    NewTerritories virtual

    A relationship without lust? What's the point of that?

    If I wanted that, I'd get a business partner and start a corporation.
     
  10. NewTerritories

    NewTerritories virtual

    Where do you get this from?
     
  11. NewTerritories

    NewTerritories virtual

    It matters to me. I'm interested in determining the veracity of claims before accepting them. I see you're presenting something like an all-encompassing worldview, and one quite foreign to modern common sense. Rather than picking at specific pieces, as way to understand what you're posting here I'll ask you this: do you have a suggested reading list? Whether it's stuff you've written yourself, or material from your teachers and mentors. I gather the Christian Bible, old and new testaments, would be on that list. Any specific books from that collection, in particular? And anything else?
     
  12. NewTerritories

    NewTerritories virtual

    Paolo Cohelo, Napoleon Hill, and Terry Crews are the only names there of which I am familiar. Thanks for the list, I appreciate it.

    I think I've watched some video by Clasik Obas before, actually.

    Here's my favourite MGTOW-related video:
     
  13. Amaris

    Amaris Member

    Good video NewTerritories

    Marriage and to a lesser degree Women, fail a cost benefit analysis especially in West.
    One thing I have been thinking about recently is how to find a traditional non-feminist girl.
    The only options seem to be:

    1. Find a girl from a religious conservative background
    2. Find a girl from a country not ravaged by feminism i.e. South American or some Asian countries and be willing to move there.

    Found a good video today on Hypergamy:

     
  14. Rising

    Rising New Member

    Hello, Im new to the site and Im mgtow. I practice celibacy , trying to stop porn, masturbation and improve my health.
    I believe some of the mgtow movement is helpful in improving self instead of focusing on women in relationships.
     
  15. wojtekoxx

    wojtekoxx One-armed bandit

    Truly englightened MGTOW don't need women or is disgusted by them, but still can enjoy a good fucking
     
  16. Rick_C137

    Rick_C137 New Member

    Hi, really cool that there is one MGTOW thread.
    Maybe we can ressurect it a bit.

    The last weeks I delved deep into the MGTOW community, and it puzzled me for a while, but they make a rational argument there.
    I think Sandman and TFM made a good intro videos for that philosophy and I think we should get rid of the notion of MGTOW = "woman hating".
    Ok, maybe there some guys in the rage phase, who post some stupid shit, but that's not the general attitude of MGTOW.

    The rest of your post is very accurate. You just have to evaluate the following things from an rational perspective:
    "love and marriage and idealistic end" is this societal fairy tale,
    "not chasing women to my detriment,being rejected, submitting to marriage" mkaes sense and sounds like you freed yourself from the plantation,
    "marriage (bad business deal for men)" is exactly true.
     
  17. Johhny Bravo

    Johhny Bravo Every temptation is another chance of life revival

    MGTOW is one of the ugliest movements to have been created. It is a poison towards a man and their genuiness with women.

    It is a castration. A social one first then a psychological one. You are healthier cutting your own balls off but remaining in the world of women and men.

    MGTOW is a misunderstanding of life. It is a distrust towards women, and a deeper distrust towards life.

    I have never watched a MGTOW man look sincerely happy. They are miserable. Angry. Repressed sadness or anger. And the movement has so much energy that of course it captures people like young men. They interpret the energy for "oh see this is the truth" but its not.

    Truth is inclusive. Not exclusive. Mgtow is psychological castration due to intense pain men have gone through. I empathise. But I do not support.

    Redpill is toxic. The humans in there are good. The men there are good men in pain. The movement is akin to the gas chambers; dont go in.
     
  18. Londoner

    Londoner Well-Known Member

    There are some elementary truths that Red Pill is built upon - one example is that Nice Guys finish last.
     
  19. Johhny Bravo

    Johhny Bravo Every temptation is another chance of life revival

    Id say thats something broader than purely exclusive to Red Pill. I do not know Red Pill too much. But I know enough.

    If a "nice guy" is what we refer to as someone deeply inauthentic, someone who feels so inferior around other men and women and copes with pleasantries.....This type of person wont garner any respect because he has none for himself and his being.

    Regardless if he finishes last or not; even if he finishes first, the ultimate crime is comprising themselves.

    In early days of MGTOW, there seemed to be emphasis on being authentic even over attaining success with women. I favour this.

    But in that case Id label Red Pill as another movement in being authentic. If this is what it really is, why should one label it 'red pill'?

    There is an ideology they push. The ideology is my distaste.
     
  20. Rick_C137

    Rick_C137 New Member

    I don't want to derail in some pointless discussion, but still tempting to argue some things ...

    It is a reaction movement to feminism. You can clearly see that in the google (geographic) trends.
    It really needs extreme things have to happen to men, that they decide to go against their own biological drive.

    Feminism is the cancer which started this in the first place. MGTOW is the cure/chemo.
    But we usually now this ends for the patient (in this case society).

    People can talk and judge MGTOW as they want. The true MGTOW don't care anyway. What actually annoys me, that nobody talks about the causes (e.g. feminism & men treated unjustly by society).

    Funny, you could basically write something quite similar about feminism / just replace mgtow with femism.

    Anyway, I still refer to the intro videos of Sandman & TFM. Debunk them first.
    Then we can maybe talk about all of these sweeping generalizations.

    Why is red pill toxic ?
    I actually agree that many men there are in pain. Now I ask you why ?
    Also consider in your answer the men, who have been falsely accused of whatever ... and all the good and faithful men, who have been taken to the cleaners.

    Red pill consists of several different parts which are quite different, btw ...
    And the anger is quite understandable, when men have been lied to for so long.

    The real red pill are just basic biological facts. And that we as humans don't differ *that* much from other species in the animal kingdom. This has consequences seen in our behaviour.
    Society nowadays seems to ignore the biological facts (due to a certain other ideology). As people don't understand what is happening they start asking questions themselves and why that was is told by society/politicians/the msm doesn't match reality.

    What exactly is the ideology in your opinion ?
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2019

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