Anyone MGTOW?

Discussion in 'Social Advice' started by Amaris, Aug 17, 2016.

  1. mik

    mik Guest

    You must be really attractive then, or really wealthy, or whatever else that might put you at an objective 9 or 10 for smv. Most guys go into a relationship because it is the only route available for physical or emotional intimacy. As an objective 7, I can't just find attractive girls (above an objective 5) to hang out with on a whim with no strings attached, and expect to be having sex with them.
    Sex outside a relationship isn't the most attractive option for avoidance of stds either, and condoms kill the enjoyment.

    There are very few women who will just want to hang out with the average guy outside a formal relationship, and a lot of those women who will, just aren't being upfront and honest about their goals to chain you into a marriage with kids.
    The majority of women just aren't as interested in physical intimacy as men are. Nwalt for sure, but women are very much relationship driven, and if your an average guy looking for short term intimacy, then you kind of have to play along with the desires of women.

    I'd rather play along within reason (short term monogamous relationship, buying the occasional dinner/cheap gift, no marriage/cohabitation) rather than have to pay top$ for it and wear a condom every time.

    The guys who say that escorts are cheaper in the long run than relationships, are the same guys who lost everything in a divorce. They were either stupid enough to get married/cohabitate or they knew the risks going in.
    Escorts are not at all cheaper than short term monogamous relationships, not unless you consider the 3000-4000$ I've spent in the last 4 months cheap, and that's just for weekly funny business.

    Escorts suck, I had one just casually admit to shooting hard drugs. As soon as I have the opportunity, I'm getting a vasectomy and getting into a monogamous relationship, wonderful condom free sex and some emotional intimacy to go along with it :D
     
  2. Newnes

    Newnes Well-Known Member Staff Member

    I actually don't think we really disagree. For some people feeling "whole" will include doing arts, for other people it won't. The same is true for cold showers.

    Also, for me, the whole PUA / Red Pill thing is not wholesome. MGTOW partly is, but not when it falls into PUA or rejection of women.

    I'll particularly answer that part: Perhaps Newnes put it down most strikingly when he talked about 'being a whole, mature and healthy adult'. In a lot of the stuff I read about self-improvement there seems to be an idea that we are incomplete/broken/failed and that we can become complete/fixed if we stick to a set of rules.

    Mature means we are able to delay gratification in favour of our long-term values; healthy means we take care of ourselves, physically and mentally; whole is more complex.

    We all have various needs. Such needs include socialising/bonding (to various extents), creating (arts or not), playing/resting, etc. In this regarding, being "whole" means that we integrate all those needs into our lives. We make place for the different facets of our personality. But, quite often, we will say about some of those things "it's not for me" out of fear (of being seen as silly, of not meeting expectations of our friends partner, of our parents even if they're dead, etc), and therefore neglect those needs.

    On a deeper level, our personality is often fragmented. We push back many things outside of our awareness, we dissociate aspects of what makes us who we are - and we're not whole anymore.

    So, I mostly agree with the most of the 7 points. We might understand different things behind those points:
    1. doesn't require becoming a professional artist. If your art is to sew or sing in the shower, I say that counts
    2. not so sure abut this one. For me, definitely. But I don't see how that's necessary for everyone
    3. definitely
    4. career is important. For some it's making money (not the best goal IMO but a goal for many), for some it's having a job that's useful for the world, etc
    5. definitely as well
    6. the over-arching goal
    7. definitely ibis bis
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
  3. I agree with you, Mr Fish. A lot of the "self-improvement" philosophy of PUA and MGTOW are all about: be alpha, be an uber-man and take charge of your life, create your own destiny, etc. This advice is only for the men that are fortunate enough to have opportunities to use this advice. Few human beings can have the X-Factor. Self-improvement gives the unrealistic impression that everyone potentially has the X-Factor - and you can too! It's individualistic puritan work ethic on steroids. But not every man is able-bodied, in good health, has talent, has a personality suited to leadership, etc. It can result in incredible frustration and dissatisfaction because you see that your life is not going in the direction you desire. The keyword is desire because according to Buddhist philosophy, desire is the root of all suffering.

    At the end of the day, the biggest problem with the self-improvement mindset is that it stops men from feeling "whole" until they have improved enough. That you don't have the right to feel good enough until you are exceptional enough. How about feeling good enough because you are simply alive and human? Why wait until you have "improved" before you feel whole? You are already whole, so why not just start now?

    I'm not saying just be happy sitting around eating chips and watching porn. But that doesn't mean you can't actually be happy sitting around eating chips and watching porn (it certainly makes me happy!). Don't psychologically crucify yourself and self-flagellate because you still do things you think you shouldn't do.
     
  4. I'm trying it, but I catch feelings quickly, and I hate when girls know how to play with them.
     
  5. Universal

    Universal Guest

    Agreed.

    I always find a bit weird labeling yourself with "ist" or "ism" especially with new things/groups because they're so volatile and dynamic and they all come with a set of assumptions. No people shouldn't assume shit about you but in the real world not everyone is that objective. When you label yourself with anything you end up having to bring a whole bunch of caveats to the conversation and usually end up committing a sort of 'no true Scotsman' fallacy. It's much more pragmatic to discuss specific points and personal principles.

    For example when you meet a christian you can be pretty confident they're most likely pretty moderate, liberal, probably don't hate gays, but they'll pray and drink alcohol etc. this is mostly because it has been long established with time what "christian" usually means. But when you meet a feminist you don't know what the fuck you're in for, a bra burner who believes men should be castrated or someone who's interested in equality for both sexes and is much closer to egalitarianism.

    Principle number 1 should be that other principles can change. And if that's your number one principle then it doesn't make much sense to label yourself as x/ism/ist with pre-determined principles.
     
  6. Mik2

    Mik2 Aka NwaltRed

    You just laid down a sound piece of advice there friend ;)
    I spent so much time running/swimming/weight lifting, thinking that if I just got those six pack abs then women would finally flock to me.
    Then when that wasn't working, I thought maybe if I was just wealthier.

    It took me a while to realize that good women don't care that much about massive amounts of wealth and muscle mass/ low body fat percentages. They care about confidence and self esteem. Those are 2 qualities that can either be built up artificially/externally in a never ending chase to be "better", or they can come from within :)
     
  7. urgesarehell

    urgesarehell Member

    MGTOW got hijacked by autistic PUA wannabes and fat old dudes with Filipina mail-order brides. It seems like every modern social/political movement becomes a rallying call for the worst types of extremists. I like the core ideas behind MGTOW, but I think I'll just stick to myself and work towards general self-improvement. I guess that is MGTOW in a way.
     
  8. newguy1

    newguy1 Member

    Still better than the sick and very extremist NOFAP cult you seem to belong to.
     
  9. NewTerritories

    NewTerritories virtual

    MGTOW has its good and bad sectors. Woman-hating aspect is one negative aspect that's often discussed. Here's another one, I'd argue it could be called man-hating, the promotion of base hedonism, resulting in an attitude of anti-masculinity. The notion that prostitution and porn liberates men sexually, with no negative effects, and the dream of the ultimate escape via virtual reality simulated girlfriends and sex-robots.

    Now, these futuristic ideas are considered lame, for losers, a sign of male weakness. A source of ridicule in popular media. MGTOWs see these reactions as rooted in some gynocentric tendency to suppress men's interests. This combined with the feminist anti-porn stance (note: not universal) provokes a defence mechanism, an intensification of the presumably pro-male pro-porn stance.

    The idea of a pro-male anti-porn stance is now on the table. Growing in influence, hopefully!
     
  10. EXPONENTIALLY

    EXPONENTIALLY Member

    It's all about semen retention with karezza if in relationship (without lust or masturbation), taking serotonin supplement and using filters softwares to overcome the urges, getting financial freedom, being able to travel and settle anywhere in the world, decalcifying our pineal gland and vibrating always higher in bliss, attracting anything we wish for our life effortlessly.

    These women and the rationalization of lust are just low and miserable lifestyle.
    Lose sight of it, cross the withdrawal and get your real home.
     
  11. NewTerritories

    NewTerritories virtual

    A relationship without lust? What's the point of that?

    If I wanted that, I'd get a business partner and start a corporation.
     
  12. EXPONENTIALLY

    EXPONENTIALLY Member

    Lust (often rationalized as "sex") is the unsatisfying depleting deceitful quest of pleasuring the flesh, either by yourself or with "a partner".
    Karezza (which means to cuddle in italian) is having so-called "sex" without lust, that is to say without orgasm, where the deceitful flesh-desire of self-destruction is sublimated into a strong genuine loving connection, not an ego-driven body deterioration. You're not a slave of the carnal drive, you're mastering and learning together discovering the bliss of love, not acting as a programmed amateur porno actor thanks to the mainstream medias.
    Your "sex" desire is a reproductive desire of your body. Now ask yourself if you want a child, a wife, a family before giving into the depths of the carnal drive. If you only want a wife, then don't deplete your vital essence. That "abstinence" decalcifies your pineal gland in your brain after some time and generates pheromons and hormons, and basically a powerful aura. And when females sense that they will act accordingly to the life frequency you chose. There will be lost programmed deceitful whorrish girls and also clownish boys rationalizing the very evil that is destroying them, but as long as you stay true to yourself and your own vital essence and your own choice, then you will receive effortlessly what you want, not what you've been programmed and corrupted to desire. Your reptilian brain has been hijacked by all these images and behaviours you see around you and even you mind is now infected. But as you keep having faith in the right direction for your real sake, you will be OK.
    Yes, indeed, that "sexual" drive gives you ambition and concrete power to achieve anything you want especially financially speaking. But it takes time, patience and chastity are what this mainstream society is against it seems from a rat-race employee's perspective. But from a gracious king perspective, your biggest asset finacially, spiritually, socially, etc. is your sperm and then society gives you only opportunities as long as you don't deplete or play with it. Your focus will shift from the lower realm to the higher realm naturally. It takes a lot of time and patience. Most people get successful passed 40 because during the teenage years or twenties and thirties, the body is full of energy and desires, but if we use all these medias to corrupt it into some profitable gains, then chances are you're powerless in a nonsense rat-race trap maintained by that same pervert marketing scam. If we keep showing you lustful images, or fearful ones or some rationalized medical marketing scam, or some hopelessness with all these kids getting rich whereas they are a minority and most of the time live an empty life or are corrupted in some marketing trap themselves, if we keep showing you and programming you into thinking that you're powerless but yet keep stimulating your primeval reptilian brain to maitain the rat-race, you lose like any other statistic.
    That's the point of keeping you from lust, it strengthen every area of your life exponentially and naturally.
     
    XFinity likes this.
  13. NewTerritories

    NewTerritories virtual

    Where do you get this from?
     
  14. EXPONENTIALLY

    EXPONENTIALLY Member

    It doesn't matter. As long as these words are telling you what you may consider as the irrefutable truth for your immediate reality, approval from any old deceptive ego is pointless in that sense. The sources of knowledge are widely open nowadays and information has become a real business. The Bible, books, spiritual talks and sermons, introspection in my life experience, random conspiracies and ancient times theories, just what Big Data has allowed us to discover before its eventual completely automated digitized society that would "benefit" only its selected/programmed masses 10-30-50 years from now. The human corrupted brain can not proceed all this fast data anyway, that's why it's up to your own choice of living and sequenced plan to achieve it.
     
  15. NewTerritories

    NewTerritories virtual

    It matters to me. I'm interested in determining the veracity of claims before accepting them. I see you're presenting something like an all-encompassing worldview, and one quite foreign to modern common sense. Rather than picking at specific pieces, as way to understand what you're posting here I'll ask you this: do you have a suggested reading list? Whether it's stuff you've written yourself, or material from your teachers and mentors. I gather the Christian Bible, old and new testaments, would be on that list. Any specific books from that collection, in particular? And anything else?
     
  16. EXPONENTIALLY

    EXPONENTIALLY Member

    Those are my spiritual guides you can find on YouTube.
    _Omraam Mikhael Aivanhov (RIP), speaks French but may be subtitled in some videos especially "Love and the sublimation of the sexual force". Several books have been written from his conferences. Naturopathy, Christianity, Hinduism.
    _Joseph Prince, Singaporean popular pastor founder of New Creation Church. Speaks mainly on the New Testament grace that we're in, speaks on porn and addictions also, very good explanation on the Bible in general. Books: Unmerited Favor, Grace Revolution, Destined to Reign, etc.
    _Robert Breaker: preacher-youtuber founder of the Cloud Church (website), excellent teaching on the Bible's word, like JP he knows we're under New Testament grace today, wide variety of subjects such as the Rapture, Self-Defense, Revelations, etc.
    _Sadhguru & Krishnamurti: I am not a fan of Hinduism, but there's a video of Sadhguru explaining Karma and what happens after death that is quite interesting. Consciousness, meditative state, bliss.
    _Emmanuel Osborne: young unknown preacher founder of the Proud Virgin Movement (website) who emphasizes on Chastity and the benefits of being pure with a nice teaching of the Bible such as the First Appointment of Adam before God sent him Eve, etc.
    _Clasik Obas: youtuber musician founder of the Wisemen Movement (website), a little bit crazy but has generally a large valid points on semen retention, nofap, modern women, MGTOW. Motivational talks.

    Books I've read related to "semen retention" and modern women and porn:
    _Manhood - Terry Crews: rags to riches story of a star who struggled with childhood traumas, porn and a fragile marriage.
    _Toxic Parents - Susan Forward: compilation of several patients interviews and psychological therapeutic analysis on each case, regarding abuse, addictions, incest, and basically your right to be yourself applying limits to protect yourself. See also "Boundaries" by Henry Cloud.
    _The Alchemist - Paolo Cohelo: short beautiful story of a young man connecting to the universe if I could say, and finding wealth and "love"... Regarding wealth and semen retention you may also read " Think and Grow Rich" or "Outwitting the Devil" by Napoleon Hill.
     
  17. NewTerritories

    NewTerritories virtual

    Paolo Cohelo, Napoleon Hill, and Terry Crews are the only names there of which I am familiar. Thanks for the list, I appreciate it.

    I think I've watched some video by Clasik Obas before, actually.

    Here's my favourite MGTOW-related video:
     
  18. Amaris

    Amaris Member

    Good video NewTerritories

    Marriage and to a lesser degree Women, fail a cost benefit analysis especially in West.
    One thing I have been thinking about recently is how to find a traditional non-feminist girl.
    The only options seem to be:

    1. Find a girl from a religious conservative background
    2. Find a girl from a country not ravaged by feminism i.e. South American or some Asian countries and be willing to move there.

    Found a good video today on Hypergamy:

     
  19. Rising

    Rising New Member

    Hello, Im new to the site and Im mgtow. I practice celibacy , trying to stop porn, masturbation and improve my health.
    I believe some of the mgtow movement is helpful in improving self instead of focusing on women in relationships.
     
  20. wojtekoxx

    wojtekoxx One-armed bandit

    Truly englightened MGTOW don't need women or is disgusted by them, but still can enjoy a good fucking
     

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