Always suspected a porn addiction...

Discussion in 'Women' started by Pwidow, Oct 17, 2013.

  1. Pwidow

    Pwidow Want my husband back.

    Thank you SORP, it is nice to know that this isn't just some weird isolated shitstorm I walked into. While I don't wish this on anyone, it is still nice to know that I am not alone, or abnormal.

    So, a few ruminations today. I have been eating up information about this addiction and the symptoms that don't seem related, but really are. It is amazing that porn is responsible not only for our deteriorating sex life, and the time away from real family life that my husband used for porn time, but for the odd personality changes I noted in him, which I took for just not caring about me anymore. It turns out that chatting inappropriately online and signing up for anonymous no-strings sex isn't outside of the norm for the porn addicted either, which makes me feel better and saddens me at the same time.

    <Trigger warning>

    It also makes me connect the dots in our sex life that didn't make sense before. While I don't mind a little bit of (mildly) kinky sex, and I have and like things considered fringe (not abnormal, many healthy couples like much of what I am talking about-I just don't want to get explicit)--anyways, my husband was trying to turn me into a Cirque Du Soleil contortionist in later years, and I am already above average flexible. This last time when he was home, one of our sex episodes left me a little "WTF!" because it was as if he were actively trying to be in a P* film, and he seemed to be using my legs to block out my face--this was also a marathon sex session, that seemed to be getting longer and longer (and not in the good way). It was less than a turn on to say the least. I mentioned it to him, and he laughed it off, but this was before I realized how invested he was into his addiction.

    Beyond this was the utter apathy when I would bring up my concerns about his lack of interest in family obligations, his children, our friendship outside of the bedroom. It was like the lights were on, but no one was home. He said the right things, but there wasn't any motivation or emotional investment in anything he said or did. He was like the walking dead.

    Reading some other people's experiences with their addiction really helps me to understand they why's of him just dropping out of family events and excursions. He was likely scheduling his PMO for when I was out of the house. He would offer to keep the kids while I went shopping, but was always on the computer when I got home and the kids were left to their own devices playing in their rooms or with my oldest son (who is 16 now). It just saddens me because even though his p* use concerned me, I had no idea how it permeated into the rest of our lives.

    I didn't realize how cathartic it is for me to have my husband finally admit to me that he does have an issue with p*, after years of blaming me for all that was wrong with our life together. I just have such an incredible amount of sadness for what might have been. I sincerely hope that our next years will better with all of this out in the open.

    As an aside, even though this particular forum site isn't really as geared toward spouses and SO's as others are, I appreciate the raw information here. I tend to be very analytical and having ventured into some other places, it seems as if so many are wanting to dwell in their rage rather than move on as I was warned in another post. I want to get the hell out of this place.

    Thanks for the vent.
     
  2. me_vs_p

    me_vs_p Guest

    ok that last post of you got me slightly aroused. 'luckily' I relapsed two days ago so it didn't had too much effect on me. but the blame is on me because you gave a trigger warning so that's very good.

    you said: ''Beyond this was the utter apathy when I would bring up my concerns about his lack of interest in family obligations, his children, our friendship outside of the bedroom. It was like the lights were on, but no one was home. He said the right things, but there wasn't any motivation or emotional investment in anything he said or did. He was like the walking dead.''

    I can relate to that. that's an exact description of me and many other P addicts. we become zombies. that's the main reason to reboot for me, to feel alive again instead of a slave of my brain, abusing my body to get that dopamine fix everyday.

    btw.. you were a very young mom, if your oldest is 16.

    I don't have a family or partner but I'm sure that if I did it would've been a disaster. if I just think how my P addiction has damaged me for years, I can't imagine the damage it would've done if I had a wife and kids. the thing is, I'm not against P, it's just that some people can't deal with it, like some can't deal with alcohol or weed.
    some people can watch a little P from time to time and it has zero effect on their life whatsoever. for some guys (and girls) P is like crack cocaine, you take a little bit, get hooked, want more and want more extreme stuff, doesn't matter what the consequences are. until you wake up and look around and lost everything around you. it's just one empty mess.
    or if you're lucky you have a partner who wakes you up before it's too late. so in a sense your husband is very lucky to have you.
     
  3. LTE

    LTE Master Of My Domain

    Looking back on the disaster i call my life, I can see just how terrible this all is. It makes me devious and makes them withdraw. I'm glad to read these experiences, because I am forced to face my own actions and the harm that caused my family life.
     
  4. Pwidow

    Pwidow Want my husband back.

    @ Me_V_P, I apologize, it wasn't meant to arouse, it was actually the opposite for me, but I understand how men's brains work on some level, hence the trigger warning.
    My husband tried telling me that "if it feels good, why is it bad" and "If things are meant to be and good for you, then it should be easy" when we were going over this initially. I told him that while the actual PHYSICAL use of P* might be easy, look at how it has destroyed his relationships as a consequence. My analogy was (because he tells me I make the best sandwiches, and that he can't make them anymore because they don't taste as good as mine): I love a good sandwich, I love it on toasted sourdough bread, I love tomatoes that aren't too thick and a good fluffy and crunchy piece of lettuce. I love the perfect sized slice/s of cheese, deli thin meats, and occasionally bacon. This sandwich is amazing and delicious, but it doesn't make itself. It takes time, patience, energy... work. Good things take work. I think he got it after that. But this is just another reminder of the fucked up coping skills that his mother (and father) imparted to him.
    I was 18 when I had my oldest, my other two are 5 and 6.

    @LTE, I think we all tend to take things for granted when we are in the moment. I am not immune. That is the one thing I try to remember through all of this, is that we are all imperfect. As long as my husband is working toward betterment, I will stand by him, but as soon as he allows himself to be swallowed by this thing, that is when I just have to say goodbye for my sanity and for the well being of my children.

    Funny enough, after finding all this out, I had a blunt conversation with my son about porn, as I caught a website in his history--plus some weird anime nakey pics from reddit. I told him that if he continues to look at porn, he could end up not being able to have sex with a real girl at all and explained PIED. Hopefully some other good that can come of this, is that my son won't end up on that path. It looked like it freaked him out enough. He was honest back and said he rarely looks at it and usually M's to nothing. Yes, I am told we have a weirdly honest relationship, but he is a good kid, with strong morals, and he likes to do outside stuff with his friends (meaning not stuck in tech world), and he gets good grades, so I am doing something right.
     
  5. LTE

    LTE Master Of My Domain

    That sounds reasonable as a strategy. Chances are that he will break free. Once they realize the potential cost of continuing, most men will make the break.
     
  6. I am sad

    I am sad New Member

    PWidow....a bunch of things: first, have you read some of the replies that were to you in my one post on Sex Dolls? Not sure if you got back over there but several people (myself including) were sending you some good wishes.

    Here is something I just saw on another posting....it may be useful for your husband overseas (and my BF):
    On one of your posts you mentioned looking at your husbands history, and someone called it unfair. But what is fair about us living in this shit when we didn't ask for all this or expect to be here? I'm more than willing to support my BF, but not if he is lying and going behind my back. You said.....

    ......and I completely agree with that. We have a right to a normal, happy life. I love my BF but I will not be miserable about this forever if he won't change.

    I too have discussed porn with my son and he was honest with me and seems like he'll avoid falling into this trap. I didn't approach it as "porn = bad = don't MO" but tried to be straightforward, providing some facts, non judgemental.

    My BF has also come up with some of his own logic on all this, which is strange because usually he is so smart, logical, scientific.... The latest one was, "if God didn't want us to use porn he wouldn't have created it". LOL. That one threw me for a loop for a moment....so ludicris. Sure.....if God didn't want us to murder people he wouldn't have created murder. Doesn't mean it's right or the recommended way to go through life. Oh the rationalization. He also doesn't think it's "fair" that some men can look at porn and not have it be an issue. I told him, well some women can sit down and eat a 1/2 pie, and it's not an issue, but it is for me, and this is for you.
     
  7. Pwidow

    Pwidow Want my husband back.

    IAS, I will head over there and take a look now.

    I think it is what people tend to do when they inherently KNOW something is bad for them, they secretly rationalize it.

    My husband is just SO private, he doesn't even like sharing normal insecurities with me, and I have always been so open, about my feelings, my insecurities, my hopes, my issues. I am 100% all about personal responsibility and accountability. I think it intimidates him a bit. I don't think he would ever have an app like that because of these issues, but who knows, he could surprise me. He has told me frequently in the past that there is just some stuff that is private and I shouldn't expect him to share it. This, of course, after I was talking about the cheat-on-your-spouse app I found on his phone. I don't even think he realized how ridiculous his request was, considering. But he swears to this day that the app, the you tube videos on how to cheat, the talking to his ex lover were all just part of a fantasy. I have no doubt he would've acted on it, if he didn't already, if I hadn't found out.

    This addiction does a doozy on critical thinking skills, to be sure.

    As to searching his history? Trust has to be earned. I actually stopped looking at his accounts and history and such about a year ago, and lo and behold, that is when it got the worst. I will stop being such a snoop when he earns trust back, or if we split--Not before, and considering, maybe not ever. This is just something he will have to understand if he wants his family intact. I read a great article that sums up what the SO's of PA's (at least THIS one) go through. It read like an autobiography.
    http://salifeline.org/help-a-loved-one/trauma-for-partners/
     
  8. Pwidow

    Pwidow Want my husband back.

    More ruminations.

    I have been messaging my husband (through FB messenger) all day. I have seen his little green chat bubble lit up, and sometimes, not all the time, after I message him (which he doesn't check, neat FB feature for us obsessive need-to-knowers) it will go back to the "mobile" sign. Because of my ZERO trust, I have already gone into his facebook to see if he is chatting someone else. He isn't.

    I finished up homeschooling (not religious, just really against farming children) made some dinner, still nothing.

    So, I went to yoga at the gym, then did some arm and back stuff after, came home expecting a message... and nothing. So, I sent him a sad panda (for real, they have a sad panda sticker).

    Now I sit and obsess about him cheating, attempting to/fantasizing about cheat/ing, P'ing it up otherwise, and pondering my future while drinking a glass of Petite Sirah and eating lime chips. Not the best pairing.

    I realize I need to let go, that this is HIS battle. But my future hangs in the balance as we are supposed to PCS (read: work move) clear across the United States (literally-- from the PNW to New England), and I won't go if this doesn't go. I have friends, a good homeschool coop that is secular and awesome, we have a small food bearing hobby farm... but I will give all of that up if he gives THIS up.

    We shall see.
     
  9. me_vs_p

    me_vs_p Guest

    do you think your husband is still attracted to you? or does he take you for granted?

    to be honest I would definitely not appreciate it if someone would check my url history etc. I'm always mental with that shit. when other people make use of my PC I always make sure they won't find websites like this in my url bar that makes them questioning things.

    but otoh maybe I would do the same thing if I had the suspicion I was cheated on.

    but from what I've read so far I almost get the feeling that all the power lies in his hands and that he has the power to cheat or not and that the only thing you can do is just hope that's not the case.

    you're a woman, you have the tits in the relationship. it's wayyy easier for you to find a new partner than for him. that's why I wonder if he's still attracted to you, that he has the feeling he has something to lose. or that he can do whatever he likes because you stick to him whatever the circumstances are.

    but maybe you're just too jealous or afraid he cheats on you. you're 34, still super young. if he doesn't do what it takes to make you happy you can still give the middle finger and walk away.

    but maybe you have your own issues and that's why you keep on checking him if cheats forever. that would be a big turn off if a woman would do that to me. you said he never cheated on you, just fantasized about it, which man doesn't? he went a bit too far by actually pursuing it, that's for sure.

    but sounds to me like you're eating yourself up with all these thoughts of him cheating and watching P etc. that sounds like a horrible way to live to me.
     
  10. I am sad

    I am sad New Member

    No, you are way off base on this one me_vs_p. She has a family, man she loves, home and a life. She has every right to know if her world is sane and safe, or collapsing around her (without her seeing). Her tits and her age will not build a new life for her out of nothing. Who even says she would need or want another man/relationship anytime soon? You may be right if it were a young couple dating, but these are more than 2 lives who are entwined by home, money, vows of commitment, children and more. How can you even suggest that she is jealous or imply that this is in any way her fault?!

    I often don't take the time to write about the good things my bf does, since its the other stuff I look for support with, but here is his opinion... He encouraged me to put software in his pc to view and track what he does. And I wasn't going to sit by ignorant and wondering when I found the illegal stuff on his computer. Pwidow isn't dealing with only porn, it's possible cybersex, hookups, etc. She has every right to know. Let him cheat and have affairs but know so you can separate your home, finances, custody and all else that is joined. You cannot build a new life overnight. And this is exactly what I would tell him as I install the software on his phone and pc with his knowledge.
     
  11. me_vs_p

    me_vs_p Guest

    @ I am sad

    hmm.. ok I think it's matter of opinion on this one. of course she has a right to know if her world is sane and safe!

    but you know.. my dad was always very jealous and afraid my mom would cheat. we didn't have internet back then and he wasn't computer savvy but I know for SURE he would've done the same as Pwidow does, he would've checked everything she does out of fear of her cheating on him. I can tell you it didn't do much good to their relationship. I went on holiday with my mom and she would NEVER cheat on him, but my dad stayed at home and he basically ruined our holiday by making my mom feel guilty of being there without him and being concerned she would cheat on him which made my mom very sad.

    and you know what they say... if you constantly give signals to your partner that you think they will cheat on you, they are more likely to do it one day because hey.. he/she expects it anyways so doing it wont make a difference.
     
  12. I am sad

    I am sad New Member

    Me_vs_P, if you grew up with that experience it is no wonder you feel the way you do. But pwidow is not wrongly suspicious, jealous or insecure.....her husband IS doing these things. If he wants a committed relationship with her, and she doesn't want these things to be a part of it, she has every right to know and to insist it is otherwise. Very different from your mom and dad.
     
  13. LTE

    LTE Master Of My Domain

    A big plus one to that. This isn't some petty dating issue, this is about two people in a committed relationship. People in such a relationship absolutely have a right to know what their SO is doing, especially in sexual matters. I wish I had been caught and confronted by my ex-wife. the embarrassment and humiliation would pale in comparison to the grief of a divorce. This woman is fighting to save her family and she is well within her rights, IMO.
     
  14. I am sad

    I am sad New Member

    Hey LTE! I downloaded the book you mentioned! Maybe I'll start a post about it on the main page and we can have a book club. I'm only on chapter 4 but I'd be interested in other's viewpoints.
     
  15. Pwidow

    Pwidow Want my husband back.

    Me_V_P, I think it is the defensive nature of the PA that makes you say things like that, especially about the history. Prior to this issue with porn, believe it or not, I was a very 'zen', self assured woman. I didn't touch his history the first 2 years of our marriage. I only did check, once the porn became an issue for me, because it was replacing me. I am HYPERVIGILANT (did you read the article I linked in an earlier post?) now because he was seeking to fulfill his fantasies with real women outside our marriage and the content of his P* was disturbing. Prior to falling in love, having children, and building a life with this man, I would've said "fuck this, I am worth more" and simply walked away. I am not necessarily jealous, though I guess that is somewhat of an element here, but more than that, I feel as if the rug has been swept out from under my feet and I am trying to control my world the best I can.

    I realize this is his fight, but I need to know that he IS INDEED fighting it. Because if he isn't, I WILL walk away. Not because it is what is easiest, but because it is what is best in the long run for me, my kids, and maybe even him.

    After this experience do I really want to try this all over again? Not really. Sure, I can probably find another guy, but I have 3 kids to think about also. This is something that I hinted at on Eltonio's journal, but life isn't about hopping from one to the next. It is about loving the one you are with. If I didn't love him, and want better for him, would I go to all these lengths? Would I sit around and worry? No. These emotions, as unhealthy as they can be at times, all come from a place of love: for my kids, myself, and my husband.

    He has said, in the throes of his PA addiction, "I wish I DID cheat now" And I told him that was one of the worst things he could say. Because the him that I married would have called that man a coward for not being able to face what he DID do. He HAS admitted that he has an addiction, since we talked about it earnestly, and he has told me he has gone "full monk mode" since then. But because of our history, it is so hard for me to put 100% faith in him. It has only been 2 weeks since, that is a drop in a bathtub for the years ahead of us. It takes time. Someday, I may not be so extreme, but he seems to be on board with me checking in on him now, with going PMO free, and he tells me he loves me daily, so I am going to keep trucking along. I am pretty secure that he finds me attractive still. Not being vain, but I KNOW I am attractive. I don't have a supermodel bangin' body, but I attract male attention of all ages still. More than that though, my husband and I were best friends and that is an element that has been missing also in his zombie walk through porn. You can trust your best friends with anything, and THAT is what I want back most of all. He could never get it up for me again, but if I knew that he was devoting his sexual, loving, and partnership energy to me even so, that would be enough.

    But, I do need to stop devoting an unhealthy amount of energy toward this, having said all that.
    _______________________________________________

    He did get back to me, long after I fell asleep. (We have quite the time difference), he had been busy all day, but he told me he had a good day so I am happy he did. I still feel a little neglected, but I realize that I can't expect him to drop everything while they are doing field exercises to call me or message me- it isn't realistic. Plus, he is keeping busy, which is what he needs right now.

    I am going to school the kids, make an awesome dinner (I am thinking pasta with a bruschetta-like sauce with salad), and then I will work out this evening. I also need to find a book to read. I realized I haven't read a good book in years.
     
  16. LTE

    LTE Master Of My Domain

    It's a great tool in understanding this problem.

    Accountability is a major tool in overcoming this problem. Accountability to you, to peers, to others going through recovery. The counter at the bottom of my profile has saved my hide more than once during dark moments. As a spouse you have every right to hold him accountable. As a spouse he has promised that you would be his exclusive sexual outlet and that he would be available to be your exclusive sexual outlet. If he does something that impacts his ability to live up to this bargain you have every right to expect to know about it.

    Nonetheless, this has to be balanced with his legitimate need for some dignity. He has to earn your trust, but you have to learn to extend trust again once it is earned. Just writing this makes me realize the depth and complexity of this problem. It's not a simple matter to deal with. All I can say is to make every choice carefully and don't allow anger or other negative emotions to dominate your decisions. Breaking up a marriage is a drastic step and has led to endless misery for many people. Don't rush towards that step. There are a lot of options open to you, counseling, programs like Recovery Nation and perhaps, even some programs available through the military. I'd fight like mad to solve this problem before giving up, but I do agree that he has to stop and stay stopped.
     
  17. me_vs_p

    me_vs_p Guest

    I'm glad you understand a bit where I'm coming from. was afraid you would feel offended and that's not my purpose, I just wanted to say how I think about the situation.

    two things to consider though.. I've never been in a long relationship so I don't know what is to love someone so deeply and want to fight to the bitter end for it. I guess I can say my parents fought for their relationship (they're married for almost 40 years) and they had a lot of struggles when they were younger but they're still together.
    I hope I can find someone that I can be together with for a such a long time as well, but I don't to fight as much as my parents did when I was young.

    secondly.. like you mentioned, I'm a recovering P addict, so I might be a bit biased.

    you say he seems to be on board with you checking in on him.. well that changes the whole situation of course. if he agrees on it, it's perfectly fine.
     
  18. Pwidow

    Pwidow Want my husband back.

    Well, he certainly wasn't to begin with ;)

    After I found out about the chatting with the ex-lover, he was upset that I snooped, but when he came home on leave, and we were fighting for our marriage--him too--he was all about letting me look through his stuff, until I found things, of course. But that is the defensiveness of the PA. He is fine until I actually find something.

    He gave me his passwords, synced his phone to a cloud so I could see everything he was doing, but he didn't realize I could track his searches, and that got him upset again.

    I am glad I snooped to that extent though. I would never have found out about PA, that THAT was the root of EVERYTHING, and gotten him on board with rebooting. It was almost cathartic to know that he had changed his wiring for me and family life unbeknownst to himself, and that I hadn't married a sociopath that thought nothing of me and only his own pleasure. It was a bit of a relief. At the same time: Now that we know, there are no more excuses. Fix it.
     
  19. me_vs_p

    me_vs_p Guest

    Yes! It's a terrible addiction. it ruins everything.
    even drugs addicts have admitted that quitting drugs was way easier than P.
    I have tried to quit P for the last four years!! and I still haven't solved this problem.
    30 days of no P in January this year is still my max since my early twenties. that's how addictive this stuff is. I have no other addictions but I can't seem to get rid of this one.
    like I said before, in a way I'm glad I was single, when I just think about the pain it would've cause to a partner it would be a disaster.
    I really hope for you that you and your husband survive this. from what I've read thus far you definitely have the willpower to fight this and do everything possible to support your husband. he's lucky to have you.
     
  20. Pwidow

    Pwidow Want my husband back.

    Still having trouble sleeping. I am having so many insecure thoughts.

    I told my husband that he doesn't seem to be as into this as I had hoped. He hasn't joined any support forums, he just went through YBOP, briefly. I told him about all the things that people had mentioned, that they don't get 100% rock hard erections anymore (something I have noticed about him, but didn't want to say anything about because I had no idea there was a cause for it, and at this point, it is moot and may just hurt his feelings--but I told him about it being a "thing"). I told him about the DE (something that has gotten worse and worse). I asked him how many days he hasn't looked at P or MO'd and he said "I don't know, it has been forever" and "I have just gone into full monk mode and try not to think about it" FYI, it has been a week... not forever. if his last day is still the day I am tracking. I think today is day 8, possible 9 (as I don't know if he had "one last time" for old time's sake). His not being accountable really freaks me out. In other news, he went out with friends last night, and with a particular female friend in attendance whose close friendship with him weirds me out. Because A. I don't know her--never met her. and B. They hang out outside of work a lot, and drink together in each others room, even though they are colleagues. I am a little insecure about it, especially considering that she recently divorced, and I saw a text where she mentioned that her ex husband, before the split, suspected my husband and her of having an affair so he wouldn't want to hang out with my husband. I want him to have friends, but female friends are dangerous. After all, that is how my husband and I got together: we were friends that had too much to drink one night. I didn't mention this to him though, because I don't want him to feel as though I am micromanaging his life.

    I told him about all my *other* insecurities, about moving 3000 miles away from our home to be with him at his new duty location when I don't know how it will turn out, if it will be the same old shit, if he just doesn't want to be alone and that is why he is pushing us to come out....

    He did say one thing that gave me hope: Baby, everything will be ok. It is all going to turn out fine.

    He used to say that to me when we first got together and I would worry about finances or family things. I hadn't heard it in almost 6 years.
     

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