A Pilgrim's Progress

Discussion in 'Ages 40+' started by Squire, Jan 8, 2018.

  1. Joshua Shea

    Joshua Shea Well-Known Member

    Not telling you how to do it, because that's how I did therapy through my 20s and part of my 30s. Now, I'm in a place where the nice men with the black robes and the men with the badges say I have to be in therapy until my probation is done. I would have left a year ago. But, recently, we got into some very deep shit that I never would have otherwise begun to deal with. It's been worthwhile, even if half of our sessions are just chitchat check-ins at this point. The other half make it worth it. Of course, I also work at home and have little-to-no human interaction in real life, so it's just nice to have someone to talk with. For the first time, I'm thinking about continuing after probation is done. The a-ha! moments are still worth it, even if they get fewer and further between.
     
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  2. Joshua Shea

    Joshua Shea Well-Known Member

    I just saw the Mr. Rogers documentary that's out the other day.
    We should all try to be like Mr. Rogers.
     
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  3. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    Because I like getting out of bed and I don't mind my small penis, anymore. :) I'm also fat and bald. :D I've been told by two people that I have a weird smile, as well. But, I smile a lot now. I like watching the children scatter. ha ha

    I would like to clarify something. When I say "blow it all up" that's just what it feels like. It isn't as though we walk out on our families, or sell our houses, etc. The work is always done inside our head. However, everything must always be on the table at all times. What's the point of being conscious if we can't ask ourselves simple, important, questions? So, it feels like we just had a big bonfire of all the things we held sacred, because our mind is open, wide open, to any and all things. We don't just want to become dry drunks, do we?

    Yes, I move slowly. Everything becomes a sort of meditation, if you will. I take cold showers to shock me out of the rut. Once you start taking them you'll know exactly what I mean. I take care of the stuff that needs looking after, because I was terrible doing it before. I wash the windows, paint bits that need attention, attend to the yard, etc. I'm not the first one, obviously, to discover that the real joy, the real meat in life, is in the minutiae. Brother Lawrence, who lived in Paris in the 17th century, wrote: "It is not necessary to have great things to do. I turn my little omelette in the pan for the love of God." Reverence for the mundane. Here is another quote from Brother Lawrence that I love: "the most holy and necessary practice in our spiritual life is the presence of God. That means finding constant pleasure in His divine company, speaking humbly and lovingly with Him in all seasons, at every moment, without limiting the conversation in any way." The last part is the most important, imo. We mustn't limit the convo, because that limits God, which limits us, which leaves us right where we started. We've made a habit of limiting ourselves our entire lives. This is why it is so important to feel no limits, to be a selfish cunt, to take what you want, when you want it. Trust me, you won't suddenly start streaking in church, even though you want to. ;) It takes time to flex our muscles, to learn who we actually are.

    Yes, also be simple. Be single-minded. Remember, always remember, that you don't know anything. Rebooting means when the door swings open to your prison you step over the threshold and look with awe at all the things you thought you knew before. Flowers, leaves, air, humans, everything will look and feel different. This is why many men experience what they term as super powers. It is heady stuff, my friend.

    Squire, you are a gay man. You don't watch gay porn to feel like a man, you watch it because that's what turns your crank. No, you will never desire your wife like I do mine. Even with my wife's saggy tits and out of shape belly I still find her attractive and want to fill her up. At some point, when you have put enough distance from yourself and P, you will know what to do about this seeming conundrum. It is probably something you and your wife are going to have to discuss in depth, because your attraction to men isn't going to ever go away. Your wife probably deserves to know that you will never want her for anything other than friendship. As an adult she should get a say in whether she wants to stay with you knowing that she is in no way sexy to you; more than any one thing this is probably your biggest barrier to getting healthy, at least that's what I think. But, there is time for that.

    Don't PMO/don't MO
    take cold showers
    move slowly
    don't over think anything, not even if you work at NASA
    the most powerful thing you can do is change your mind
    God is bigger than God.
    You are bigger than yourself...except your penis. ;)
    do the shit around your house that needs doing and smile a lot.

    That's all I've got.
     
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  4. Mad Dog

    Mad Dog Well-Known Member

    Squire.... nobody said this would be easy. If some said that they are full of shit. An endeavor of this nature requires many hours and days of pain confusion and at times regret. I for one have experienced almost all the emotional trauma and alienation one could imagine. You will make it believe me. I want to continue and will but I can t do it now.
     
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  5. Mad Dog

    Mad Dog Well-Known Member

    I have some time now. I Was raised in the old way. Honor......the most important card of all. Honor.......you bow to it and no situation is more important..... Not even you. Can be very hard to understand but that's what the old folks believed and taught you. You have honor you are lucky not all do today. We were raised to sacrifice self. Learning that this is not the way takes time. Don't harass yourself it will come just trust the process.:)
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2018
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  6. Mad Dog

    Mad Dog Well-Known Member

    • Honor respect love compassion. You have it all dammit USE IT!
     
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  7. Joshua Shea

    Joshua Shea Well-Known Member

    I'm at almost exactly one year. What's ironic is that everyone -- the state, my PO, my lawyer...they all wanted two years, but the judge gave three years. I think that was in exchange for suspending almost all of the sentence.
    The biggest change for me will be the ability to leave the state without telling anyone where I am. I don't work outside the house and I'm never around children anyway, so that stuff won't change must, although it will be easy to work outside and be around kids compared to now.
    The best part will be able to just not think about it.
     
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  8. Joshua Shea

    Joshua Shea Well-Known Member

    I have a lot to say, but I just want people to read that phrase as much as possible.
    Have you done any reading about men who have actually come out and lived their life as gay men around the age or in roughly the situation you're in? Saville is right. You're gay. You've always been gay. You've wanted to be something else, but at your core you're not.
    Now, as you've said in the past, you're a yo-yo on this board with your emotions all over the place. Today you're obviously down. You need no more than to click on the numbers at the bottom of the page to see that you're going to bounce back, so don't feel too much anguish if possible. This too, will pass.
    But when it passes...you're still gay. Those of you who believe in an imaginary zombie friend you praise with cannibalistic rituals of eating flesh and drinking blood (my mom hated that take the day of my confirmation) also tend to believe God doesn't make mistakes. So if God doesn't make mistakes, we do.
    If you're making mistakes, fix them. Your kids either know you're gay or will know soon. Kids aren't idiots. They also know the tension with your wife and sense it. Kids are good feeling energy that way. Here's a wild thought...your belief that you're staying together for them is bullshit. You're staying together to avoid the guilt of being the father who broke up the family by being gay. Now here's a wild thought. Let's say you divorce and get weekend custody. Could you be a better father being your authentic self for two days giving them your undivided attention than living a lie with them seven days a week?
    The way you solve this is by admitting who you really are...and embracing it.
    Rock bottom is death. Not caring about that is the step before. You're still 18 steps away. Now do something before you go any further down.
     
  9. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    You don't have to figure it all out today, next week, or next month. Your mind will want to think think think, but, as I say, be simple. Someone wrote we put Fred in front of Barney, repeat.

    Great things are in store for you! Much love and a huge cyber hug, my friend.
     
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  10. Joshua Shea

    Joshua Shea Well-Known Member

    Totally disagree depending on who you're talking to for two reasons. First, their beliefs may be evil or ignorant. I'm not going to try and reason with a white supremacist, ever. The other time it's OK is when you need to get somebody to defend something...to get a rise out of something. I insulted my mother's religion because I was being dragged kicking and screaming (figuratively) against my will (literally) into a religion she couldn't answer basic theological questions about. When people sit in the middle of the canoe, the only way to get them to defend their position is to stand up and start rocking it.
    That's just not following a sustainable farming plan. That's on them, not you. But if you kept quiet instead of verbalizing a way for them to survive, that is on you.
    That's cool. Probably only 75% of it is correct anyway.
    Write this down and put it in your wallet and the next time you relapse, read it and write what it means to you. It's the most powerful thing you said in your entire entry.
    I have a friend who once said, "You're the only person I know who likes to be made fun of, who likes to be proven wrong and who likes to have their opinion changed. You're the definition of social scientist." I kind of liked that, because all of it is true. Then I told him only ladies wore the kind of white shoes he had on.
    And I love you even when you can't recognize I'm right.
     
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  11. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    I'm afraid I don't entirely agree with this. We quit PMO so that we can begin our "own" journey. I do respect your love of family and faith. Most men, I think, would put great value on their family and faith. However, loving your faith and your family still lead you to PMO. This is why the paradigm must shift. Your mantra must be "my journey, my journey, my journey." My friend, as an addict you (we) live in a fantasy land. When we are in the grip of addiction we actually haven't got a clue about our faith and family. This is a great chance to really find out what it all really means to you. Please don't retreat behind the well-worn skirts of the F & F card.

    When I read your last post I literally sighed. Don't "decide" anything right now. Follow the process of no PMO and see how you feel in 3 months. As Brother Lawrence says "don't limit the conversation before it's even started."

    PS: @Joshua Shea I also think it is unnecessary to diminish another person's beliefs. I echo what others have said: I think you should have your own journal, though I know you think it unnecessary. Part of the deal here is that we are all a team. I said it before: relationships are what make this place tick over. If you had your own journal I would write this on it, instead of taking up space on Squire's. Having a journal means that we are a part of something greater, not just an outlier. I've said a few things that people have taken issue with, but they can always take it up with me on my own space.
     
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  12. Mad Dog

    Mad Dog Well-Known Member

    I really don't know what to say. Saville has said it all. Pmo fucks up you're life. You want to get rid of it for you're own sake. You need to forget these high type principles and realize that this is a badass dogfight. I don't know, you seem to need a higher principle to do it. Do you want to be respected for having one ? Fine, I respect you BUT you're no more important than t lowest person on this site. You need to wake up here......we do this for ourselves and ONLY for ourselves not God and country or any other high principled bullshit. C'mon Squire run you're head against the wall ánd I hope wake up see.
     
  13. Joshua Shea

    Joshua Shea Well-Known Member

    I will note your descent and stop the moment that Squire asks. And I know myself too well to believe if I ran a journal, it would be nothing but a commercial for my book and website, both which you can find at RecoveringPornAddict.com
     
  14. Joshua Shea

    Joshua Shea Well-Known Member

    Amen.
    Ditto.

    I think you've actually come a long way today. Be proud
     
  15. Mad Dog

    Mad Dog Well-Known Member

    Good luck Squire. I sincerely hope it works out for you.
     
  16. A New Man

    A New Man White Knuckle Brigade 2013

    I relate to your principled stand Squire. Guys who are no longer attracted to their wives because of excessive porn use choose to stick with them anyway and fight for their relationships for all sorts of reasons that are not sexual attraction (lack of sexual attraction to real life partners is pretty much the defining characteristic of everyone on here). My attraction for my wife is still recovering after years of neglect. I don't stay with her or fight for our relationship because i want to jump her 24/7. I stay with her for a myriad of other reasons, including 1) the fact I love her, 2) our kids and common purpose in raising them, 3) our awesome friendship, 4) her personality... I'm not saying the physical thing isn't important, but in a long term relationship, it is only one thing. Obviously the gay thing complicates matters, but i just wanted to point out to you the ways in which we're basically in the same boat.

    Somehow I doubt I will now be advised to leave her because i am not attracted to her as much as when we met (due to my consumption of porn and other factors), for a much younger woman who is far hotter and who is bound to make me just so much happier (there is a saying about that, involving grass and its relative greenness on the neighboring property).
     
  17. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    I, for one, have never advised you to leave your family or abandon your faith. In fact, my advice to everyone here is to fight to keep relationships together. There was a fellow here, under the name Jam, who seemed on the verge of leaving his wife and I wrote him a number of long messages urging him to not leave his marriage. He was/is an intelligent man, a compassionate man, but P has a way of skewing the ways we think. Or, to put it another way, we got off track early on which lead us to the scourge of P, a convenient resting place for the broken. Unfortunately, Jam left all of a sudden and we never did hear how his recovery was going or his relationship with his wife.

    I almost wasn't going to post anything, because you seem to have drawn your line in the sand. Perhaps at this point you need to and that's OK. :) If you go to a bar and watch how bouncers handle drunks it can be rather informative. As soon as the bouncer tells the drunk "YOU HAVE TO GO!" HE HAS TO STAY! The drunk has had his ego backed in a corner, and with no wriggle room he must now defend his honor. Is the drunk seeing clearly?

    PMO leaves us in a state of intoxication. When we are not PMO'ing, or acting out in other inappropriate ways, we are still clouded by our past behavior...this takes a long time to shake off. I'm still recovering, and there are days I wonder if I'll ever be truly free of all that went on before. It is not easy getting our mojo back! However, miracles happen. Yes, miracles, for they seem miraculous. How could my wife embrace a lying, cheating, husband again? I don't have the answer for that. My journey is well-documented in my journal, but I now see, at least I think I do, that putting myself first was the most important mind-shift I ever did. I didn't set boundaries, or go to counseling, or demand anything. No, I just went about my day knowing that I was in charge of myself, that I got to make all decisions related to how my day unfolded; which included whether I would PMO, or not.

    You will fight for your family because a man must. You will retain your faith, in some form, because a man must have somewhere to put his hat (soul). Putting yourself first, which is what I call embracing one's manhood, does not preclude faith and family. In fact, I would say it is your best chance at finding what a true relationship is. Of course, this is just my opinion.

    Echoing Bobo's words...I wish you well, my friend.
     
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  18. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    Your wife sounds like an amazing woman.

    I have no problem hugging or holding a man for what seems a long time. :)
     
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  19. Joshua Shea

    Joshua Shea Well-Known Member

    I think you're assuming I get nothing from this or that I don't read other threads. I do. I'm just comfortable posting here. I also post on two other message boards and feel like I have relationships with many of those people as well. I have my own website where I post at least twice a week that is always linked at the bottom of every thread. I could just repost what I write, but that seems somewhat counterproductive. Again, if being the guy on the bowling team who doesn't buy the matching shirt is the reason to kick me off, I'll respect it. I like this thread because the core four or five people who post are so different. I don't view this as a team, I view this as a support group where, "But have you tried this?" or "But have you thought of this?" is brought up a lot, even if it's never followed. The other reason I like it is because it doesn't feel like marketing myself. Last night, I did a satellite link with a Caribbean TV show about porn addiction. Last Sunday, I was on KLAA radio out of Anaheim immediately following the Angels game. Thousands of people, if not tens of thousands heard me between those two gigs. But I'm kind of just a talking head rattling off statistics and plugging my book at the end of it. Here, I have actual interaction with real people. Here, I don't care if 7 people are reading. If you ever want me gone, I'm gone, but this is the way I'm doing things for now and if it changes, you'll be the first to know.
     
  20. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    Still laughing about this one. Rock on, Squire. I LOVE a good rant!
     
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