Discussion in 'Pornography Addiction' started by ivar123, May 18, 2014.
After abstaining from ejaculation for 90 days, yes.
It's unhealthy because it's actually hypomania. Basically addiction-induced hypomania.
Ever wonder why you're finding it impossible to maintain the superpowers? Because it's impossible to do so. They are not normal.
Normal people who don't masturbate for 7-14 days don't get "power surges," or superpowers. They just get hornier. That's it.
We get these "power surges," because our brain chemicals are fucked up from addiction and fluctuate wildly.
Also, masturbation is not unhealthy for the average person. But, for or a person with porn addiction, masturbating to orgasm can light up the same pathways in the brain that porn does and perpetuate the addiction and brain changes.
I seen similar effect to superpowers when I first started Paleo diet. They forgot to add disclaimer that "you will feel great only during your first two attempts".
I actually agree with this theory now and think it should be way more prevalent on this board; it shows us how the mood changes we experience with NoFap are potentially not the result of addiction related brain changes but from an evolutionary adaptation that relates to ejacation frequency.
Ivar, I have a question. Is it normal to have ED during the "lows" after superpowers. Like can't get it up at all sometimes, and no libido. Then when I have superpowers I can get it up fine and feel extremely horny.
This is almost making me think that instead of PIED I just have unstable erections from having a hectic ejaculation frequency from binging on porn and such.
Let's get some discussion going on here; any guys successfully limited their O's to once or twice a week and got stable erections again as opposed to binging O's and abstinence which makes erections cycle so to speak?
I can't understate this, that I think this is huge and could be breaking new ground for ED sufferers on here.
I'm thinking that just having an instance of ED in the days after instense sexual stimulation with porn and multiple O's (or during abstinence) is normal for many guys and this whole thing PIED has gotten blown out of proportion. Guys have some instances of ED and freak out because of the stigma this holds and look for an answer and find YBOP, when maybe all that's really happening is the hormonal/"DA" surge/flatline that is described here.
IMO, the ED should get better by staying away from porn and stabalizing the O cycle, i.e. every week or two and only when you feel horny and erections should stabalize instead of cycling between ED and hyperarousal which I seem to do.
It's very interesting to think that the "flatline," may just be an evolutionary compensation for a lot of ejaculation in a short period of time, and also abstinence.
And obviously abstaining for long amounts of time (think past 2 weeks) is NOT good, because I do agree with the use it or lose it theory Ivar has proposed. think about it: so many guys have reported superpowers and libido dying out after a certain amount of abstinence and then waking them back up with sex or masturbation.
If you look at this on the whole, a lot of the guys on this forum do NOT have true ED. It is almost always just temporary and seems to cycle between flatline and having erections (how strong these are seem to be related to exactly what point you're at in the cycle and also the pelvic floor - check out gameover's thread).
Most on this board, like myself, have a problem with moderation, and have compulsively masturbated to porn and these binges quite possibly have led to this evolutionary adaptation of "flatline," followed by superpowers (or vice versa - these two cycle and either can come first for me), and it turns out that the flatline features ED but again it's temporary. But the problem is exacerbated when the obsessed individual, instead of deciding to regulate hiis masturbation and just do it normally like everybody else, decides to go on NoFap and then gets even more screwed up because this "passion cycle" or whatever you want to call it gets interrupted.
So if we just don't force ourselves to cum like we did with porn, and only masturbate when aroused, our "cycles," should eventually allow us to have more stable erections and not have temporary ED at inconvenient times.
However, if you really like the strong superpowers and you're willing to endure some temporary ED and serious mood/cognitive disturbances to get there, like ivar describes above, whatever floats your boat. I, however thinks it's healthier to engage the passion cycle but lightly so you still get some level of "superpowers," (just hormones really) but have more consistent erections and mood. Again, whatever floats your hard, wooden boat.
So really, we're looking at two different things happening, IMO. Porn addiction that causes sufferer to PMO compulsively. Then separately, the body's natural response, to all the forced orgasms, as opposed to addiction related brain changes, is described by Ivar on this forum, and features "lows," which manifest as flatlines and ED.
This is absolutely gigantic; I do think we are on to something here.
Marston, you're one of my favorite posters haha we always seem to have similar ideas, but yeah I'd say when I break abstinence with an O I almost always feel immediately better, and the more O's I have in that period after breaking abstinence the better I feel , like if I binge and have 3-4 Os after abstinence I'll feel like I'm on cocaine by that night, serious. And then immediate after that super high I flatline and lose my erections. I think abstinence sets you're body up so that when you finally do O it's like you use up all that energy and ten after the initial weird high feel like shit and a lot of guys blame it on the O, but I think it's the abstinence that causes this effect. It's the same mechanism that causes the superpowers followed by flatline when you abstain.
It's real confusing but like you said Marston, I'm going to MO when I feel like I really should, I.e. only when fully aroused, not in flatline and no more than a few times a week and hopefully the flatlines and superpowers stuff will chill out, I think the more moderately you masturbate the less this stuff effects you (I think it happens to everyone, they just don't notice) and also I think it affects you way more if you force out faps like not fully erect with porn.
But yeah like you said I think the porn addiction is a serious issue that I do suffer from but I don't think it's what's causing the serious mood/erection changes when I abstain and orgasm, I think it's just an evolutionary mechanism like I mentioned. So I'm just going to fap like everyone else and my hormones and shit will normalize.
Need more opinions, what do you guys think?
Lol it's funny that this thread is here basically changing the entire outlook of porn addiction and "brain changes," with logic that by far makes more sense to me than the dopamine receptors theory, yet no one gives a shit or talks about it, they just keep saying "withdrawal," and to just abstain forever.
I agree that porn addiction is obviously very real and yes I think the dopamine receptors have merit when it comes to the addiction; I just think when it comes to the superpowers and flatlines it's a different mechanism and like you're saying guys need to change their perspective especially like you said if they've been abstaining for a year with no progress.
And that one should expect that after you fap for the first time in a year that you're going to flatline afterward, and it's normal, as opposed to thinking the O caused the flatline and you must avoid it forever.
Yes, this is true. If you won´t change anything else, just kicking PMO, then what the hell are you expecting? QUITTING PMO won´t make you "superhuman" nor great because it is not the main reason for your bad life. You should feel much better after completing 90 day period and then you can continue self development path to become "superhuman", but that road is not such straightforward and takes a lot more time.
I'm glad this thread is alive again.
NoFap was a trend a few years back which many people joined. After a few years, now that most of those people have had the experience to abstain for long periods of time (i.e., months), they're starting to realize that long-term NoFap causes damage, potentially permanent. There are more and more threads like this one appearing throughout /r/NoFap, YBOP, etc. and it's all the same: why do the benefits fade after several months, and why do they not come back at all? Many are experiencing severe impairments in their sex lives, such as problems with libido.
I.e., the two biggest problems with NoFap I see online are:
1. The ability to experience powers or "high" feeling and super-confidence that many have in the first few weeks of a streak (not just their very first NoFap streak, but could be their 10th streak or something) disappears if they go for several months of complete abstinence. In other words, one might feel the euphoria or powers after the first ~7 days, but relapses on day 14 and they go away. Then he feels them again after 7 or 8 days (varies depending on person), but relapses on day 21. He repeats this process over and over again. However, if and once he goes for more than ~2 months, he no longer has the ability to feel this super-confidence, happiness, motivation, etc. Even if he relapses again and waits 7 or 8 days.
Therefore, it's illogical when many NoFap members explain this loss by saying that the body gets 'used' to these powers and down-regulates them. If so, then why are members able to experience them for many months with the said process (for me it was more than 8 months) until they decide to go on complete abstinence for a couple months? Why don't they go away while this process is being repeatedly used?
2. Not only is the ability to experience these powers lost after a streak of ejaculation abstinence for more than a couple months, leaving him to feel exactly like he felt before he found NoFap (back when he used to PMO every day), but there are now issues in addition to this loss. For instance, many report experiencing 'flatlines' indefinitely. They report no libido, no desire to socialize or work, weight loss, etc., and many at this point quit NoFap and go back to regular MOing, which reportedly kick-starts their libido and partially restores their desires. Very few carry on with it, and many report that after years of complete abstinence, their libido is only a little better or its still gone, but their mood and motivation partially come back.
Here are some links for the first problem, which is not as often discussed as the second problem:
TheExibo, I've read some of the links you shared and I find them interesting. I think the entire super-power phenomenon is complete horse dump. To my senses, the superpowers are derived from a physiological and hormonal situation that are above normal. Using this natural source of energy the right way will
By all respect - you're just collecting random guys that misinterpret their so-called 'superpowers' but also the entire reason for NoFap. NoFap is meant to get rid of porn or fapping habits and bind to develop oneself, and to connect to women. So it's not the NoFap itself that causes the issues, it's mindless abstention from having sex. We are sexual animals and are meant to bind to each other. Not meant to bind our hands to our penises.
So my question to you is: when did you chat with a girl? how was it? did you become pro-active in persuading her?
That's what NoFap is for.
Take care of yourself
This is a document from the original poster of this thread. The conclusion has an interesting suggestion as to how to get back the benefits and powers of NoFap that happen in the initial few streaks.
Bumping this for good reasons
I’ve finally found people who are going through what I’m going through. The flatline and superpower phases never used to happen to me about 3 years ago before I discovered edging. Im turning 20 in a month and this has been ruining my life. I’ve noticed that over this time my libido has been dying down. Recently I attempted NoFap hard mode for 14 days and I relapsed this morning because I literally felt no difference on day 14 to how I felt on day 0. Still low libido, still no morning wood, still depressed, still have social anxiety, hair looks thin, face looks puffy, fatigue, out of breath quickly, etc.
Over the past few months I’ve noticed a 3 day cycle that sometimes gets me out of a flatline but I think I have to abstain from PMO for about a week before this. On the first day I PMO as many times as possible to the point where I’m forcing it at the end. On the second day I edge for about 20 min and release. Then on the third day I PMO normally. After that I’m cured and get superpowers again, roaring libido , no depression, hair looks better after a few days, etc. Those superpowers feel like my old true self from a few years ago so I wouldn’t really call them superpowers but I’ll just say that for now. This state only happened to me twice so far but my life was so beautiful each time. It lasted for about a week until I had a wet dream the first time and the chaser effect after the wet dream caused me to watch porn without touching myself for about 20 min to the point where I feel like I’m hornier than ever than something just snapped. I entered the flatline again within seconds. This leads me to believe that it could’ve been too much dopamine or a hormone or something.
The second time I went 4 days and PMOd, felt fine for about a day after then the chaser effect came and I resisted the urges as much as possible while in the shower and I flatlined again. So both times I entered the flatline without even orgasming. So maybe if I just PMO whenever I get the urge and not hold it in and resist, I’d be fine? Idk but i think I’ll try it this time.
I think that after about 3 years of edging my brain has become so fucked up that now this happens. Maybe it’s a sign that I need to stay without PMO for 2-3 years to ever feel consistently normal again. I really can’t stand the flatline phase I just want my old life and libido back, I’m fucking 19. I mean back when I was younger I would PMO and sure after it I wouldn’t feel as confident and good as if I went on a streak but I would be fine within a day or two. Now I go weeks in a flatline phase and my life is a complete hell even after that time.
I honestly don’t know what is wrong with me. I can’t tell any of this to a doctor because they’d think I’m crazy. And I can’t continue having these flatline phases.
If anybody could give me advise or relate I’d really appreciate it.
Simply put its PAWS. In the earlier stages PAWS doesn’t hang around too long and the waves are shorter and you feel good in a few weeks to months. If you’ve been abusing it bad you can be in a bad flatline for a long time with some good days thrown in the mix
So my only option is to just quit cold turkey and experience the flatline for as long as it takes without relapsing at all correct? Even if that takes a few months or up to a few years. I just came off a 2 week streak of No PMO and binged yesterday. I feel better now but I know this superpower type feeling will probably disappear within a week if not less (probably within 24 hours of a wet dream) and I’ll be back in the flatline.
This time I will not PMO once I hit the flatline though. I guess I’ll just go through it for as long as it takes and enjoy the next few days of feeling good because it’s probably the last time I’ll feel like that for another year or two. Crazy how this much long lasting damage could be done to the brain of a 19 year old just from PMO for a couple of years. None of my friends ever complained of this, but then again no one probably edged as much as I did.
Yea unfortunately that is the way it is. I think the damage done to ourselves is severely underestimated. I had 70 day flatlines when I started all this back in 2013 and felt good for a week or two. Now I have had a few sporadic days chucked in between but the flatlines get worse every relapse and all you have to have is time and patience with it. That's just how it is. You'll get better by a week by week or month by month if you're anything like me. It's very gradual and subtle. Sometimes you'll lose hope and doubt but you'll have to remind yourself how far you've come in the long run.
Jacko90 PMOing one time to feel better for 3 days, and then hit the flatline afterwards... you know you're (ab)using a short term quick fix that in the long run will cripple you even more. Don't lose hope and focus on other parts of your life. Leave your computer and go outside to live.
This will make your reboot easier, although your feeling might indicate otherwise. Resensitise!
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