A lost boy's journey through dark woods towards real manhood and integrity

Discussion in 'Ages 40+' started by titan_transcendence, Jul 22, 2016.

  1. MissingSelfCompassion

    MissingSelfCompassion Active Member

    Every day I wake up and work on acceptance. I have depression. There's no magic cure. It's not an enemy to fight, but part of who I am. As you said earlier in your journal, "I have felt the sense of freedom by given up those faulty dreams, which have never served me well." I'm trying to give up this idea that I'm going to wake up tomorrow and be free of depression forever. Like you, I find some freedom when I'm able to truly let go of the fantasy that I'll be a Happy-Go-Lucky version of @MissingSelfCompassion.

    Please note that I said "every day." I'm still working on this. I'm still trying to get along with myself instead of fighting it. I just think it would be counter productive to tell myself to man up or get angry at the depression and say, "not today." Instead, I'm trying to have compassion for myself. Doing what I just described every day is not easy. "This sucks, it's difficult, and I'm only human. It's okay, we'll get through this." Typing it out feels cheesy, and on many days the act of doing it does too.

    What you're dealing with @titan_transcendence really blows. I'm truly sorry that you have to deal with it. I'll be thinking of you. You're not alone, there are others like us.

    Meds can be really helpful. Give them time. I recently met someone who told me that she's on her 5th med. She started trying meds 2-3 years ago. She told herself that it would take time to find something that works for her and thinks that was one of the best things she did. I have to agree. I know family members who quit 2 months in "because it wasn't working." My psychiatrist told me it would take about 6mos before brain chemistry started changing, and if I had bad side-effects, it would take 6mos to ween me off the meds. A year to simply try and see if something works. So I'm envious of that woman I talked to. Telling herself it would take awhile went a long way to helping her cope, I imagine.

    Take care.
    titan_transcendence likes this.
  2. Bobo

    Bobo Well-Known Member

    Meds are not really helpful they are a trap also $ for the doctors.
    Be real careful what you believe that psychiatrists say. They prescribe drugs and do so with a free hand. There apparently are clueless about the side effects or simply don't care. According to outside sources they are responsible for 63% of the overmedicated cases in the us. They are being payed to sell them. I hope you can find another source rather than psychiatrists.
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2019
  3. Gil79

    Gil79 Seize the day

    This caught my attention as well. It is a bit contrasting because on the one hand it seems you have given up, but on the other hand you have clearly very strong values you stick to. Being vegan is not easy, so this means you have great willpower.

    Every now and then, reading in older journals I see a post of yours TT. You were so positive. You seemed to feel so light. I hope you can get that back. I think you can get that back. You must get that back. It is worth fighting for. I agree with Saville and Bobo that you can change you brain and that psychiatrists are too often prescribing medicines that harm more than the original condition.

    Hope to see you post here more often:)
  4. titan_transcendence

    titan_transcendence Well-Known Member

    Im taken by the amount of response from you guys. So thanks, Lowdo, Saville, Missingselfcompassion (what a adequate nick of what I lack too as well!), Bobo and Gilgamesh! I really appreciate it, even though I feel like Im not worth it..

    The fact is, Im stuck. That builds the depression; because I choose the passivity rather than action. I know, doing even little things will help. But I seem to have lost my self-courage along the way. I make a constant mistake by starting to compare myself to others and that will always end up to me feeling inferior to them. I may have lost a lot of opportunities along the way, but theres still a time left. But what I do - because of fear of life and failure I choose to hide in this depression and defeatist thoughts. "Its not worth it", "Im born to be a loser", "I simply cant make it" and so on.. But theres also safety in the misery of depression. I choose not to take responsibility of my life. Because I realize now that even negative choice is still an action. Theres not some outside force pushing me to do this to myself.
    But even when I start thinking along those lines there rises a strong dissatisfaction towards myself. Why I wont just man up? Why Im such a weakling, such a coward? Only one to suffer is myself, when I let those thoughts defeat myself, to let me believe its not worth it try to make things better. I need to find a compassion towards myself, yet go forward and start doing things rather than loiter in passivity even if I felt I have not a strength to rise from the bed in most days.
    There was a safety in my faulty relationship, which lasted 15 years. Because I worshiped her I did not need to deal of my own issues, my own insecurities, to go forward to carve my own path in life. It was simple yet faulty solution to escaping my responsibilities towards myself. Now I can not hide in that way, so I unconsciously choose to be depressed instead. It seems theres fear behind all my problems. Fear of something.. of life.. of trying.. I can not pinpoint the exact thing but it truly seems to be a crux of my depression.
    MissingSelfCompassion likes this.
  5. Saville

    Saville Well-Known Member

    I've been thinking a lot about this lately and have decided it's faulty thinking. I used the above phrase to motivate me, and it did, but it only can help us so far. What we need to do is to "child" up. Or, to be more specific get back to being a toddler. When we were toddlers we weren't concerned about whether we were playing correctly, we just played. I read a book recently by Anat Baniel where she suggests approaching what we do "as though we know nothing," just like a toddler would. We let go of the preconceived ideas of what we know and just simply explore. We are all born with this ability to grow organically, otherwise we never would have learned to speak or write. I've said this before: the mind that got us into trouble isn't going to get us out.

    I am trying to approach everything I do like a toddler. Even picking something up from the ground. How would a toddler do it? I've always said part of my recovery was doing things slowly. I would also now say that we should do it mindfully. So, if I'm raking the leaves I think about the pressure I use on the rake, how my hands are placed, if my back is also part of the raking. It's amazing how this makes my brain jump forward and out of old patterns.
  6. MissingSelfCompassion

    MissingSelfCompassion Active Member

    "Man up," appears a lot around here and it makes me cringe. I have to go back and look at the intention of people who say it. As you said above, I have to appreciate that the guys here are only trying to help. The phrase makes me cringe because it is still the depression, the critical voice in my head at work again. That toxic "man up" is comparing me to other men around the world who are better than me. So yes, compassion is a better route. The thing that is most difficult about compassion, aside from the fact that we've been spending 40+ years not doing it, is acceptance. It scares people to accept where they are. It scares people for me to tell them that I have to accept where I am, right now. My spouse and family think it's some sort of suicidal talk, but I can't have compassion for myself if I don't accept me. The narrative in society is all about "fighting" and being brave. Guess what? Accepting that right now I'm a bit of a mess isn't cowardice, it's bravery. Those others we're judging ourselves against may have never sat down and really looked at who they are.

    @titan_transcendence You amaze me because you can see how you've treated yourself for so long. You see that you hid from your own problems and lived in your ex's shadow. You've recognized it! That's a huge step. I'll be kind to myself and say that I have noticed this about myself too. Now is the bumpy part. Now, I'm a bit frozen in place. I do these things to myself. I see it. Why can't I stop? Grr! We don't have to stop. We should accept that we may never stop. Letting go of the idea that we can be something else allows us to be who we are. There's no magic pill that cures depression, no magic bullet. Accepting that I'm going to have good days and bad days is the best I can do at this moment for me. It's not condoning the bad days or making an excuse. It's compassion. Thanks so much for taking the time to skim my journal and write there. I really appreciated that you took the time to share.
  7. titan_transcendence

    titan_transcendence Well-Known Member

    I agree, that the phrase "Man up" can be quite defeating thing to say. Even if meant in good way. Its the same as saying to unemployed person: "Go to work, you bum!" Or to saying to depressed person to Suck it up. Like the other is only so idiotic as not to start doing the right thing. The fact is the individual could be very aware of the problem. But still could not start doing the right thing because of his mental state and messed up emotions. Saville's "child up" approach could be way more positive way to do things. :)

    This is kind of scary thought, that I should wait for months the meds to take an positive effect. So far, the med Im taking has caused dulling of my emotions. Because Im very sensitive guy, I can surely tell the difference. Nothing stirs much emotion for me currently. Its like kind of cold, calculating feeling in my head. There is no anguish, but no joy either. Other kind of negative thing is that I lost all interest to any sexuality right after the first day using this med (I know, I have been complaining about the same thing even before taking the med, but now the effect seems to be physical rather than mental). So, the rebooting would be easy for me now. Im waiting, Im hoping the more positive effects to take place.
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2019
  8. Boxer17

    Boxer17 Active Member

    Good morning Titan. I just want to express our sincere support for you in this struggle. Though we are anonymous we are fellow soldiers in this fight for a sober and happy life and you are in our thoughts sir!
  9. titan_transcendence

    titan_transcendence Well-Known Member

    I do not know if it can be labeled as "rebooting" that Im doing these days. Anyways, because meds seems to have killed my libido, I have not MO'd/PMO'd for few days. Sad that it will not give me the energized feeling I used to feel. I guess the depression got the best of me. Im not sure that I like the effects of meds in my mind. Those feelings that I described in my earlier post still persists: dulled up emotions and zero libido. It feels like that I could have a fire in my house and even if that would burn down it would not be so big deal for me. That said, maybe its good to put brain to rest for awhile. I have not dwelled in misery or anguish either. Even passion, like P taxes our nerves. So, maybe this is good in the end.

    Today it came to my mind how P has twisted my view of reality. Because I used it hugely in my younger years, it being the sole outlet for my sexuality and I was without a woman until my late twenties. Even then, my relationship was not sexual, partly because I still used my favorite outlet for my sexual needs, meaning P.
    Even now, as an single guy the effect of P still influences my view of sexual relationships. I must admit, that I find the thought of being with the same partner for years, ultimately dull. Also, the normal sex seems to me quite disinteresting thought. I have seen thousands of most beautiful women naked for years, seen any fetish that I could possibly imagine and some that I would not rather wanted to know anything about. I have seen orgies. I have seen depravity in all forms.
    Maybe thats one reason why I have not truly even wanted a relationship at all. I scarcely know anything about normal love life and wooing a woman. I have grown with P as my mistress and even that P do not have that spell in me anymore (even that I watch it sometimes for a little sessions) it still hugely influences my mind.
    Even without P I am not sure if that will ever truly change, meaning that even that I could give up P for good, its effect and mindset of sexuality over the years will make it that I will remain a single guy for the rest of my days.
    Last edited: May 6, 2019
  10. Eternity

    Eternity Patience

    This is something I've been thinking about too. Is it too far gone to recover from? I mean, at this point I think that I've alienated myself completely from women. Maybe it's just overthinking, though. But when I, at halfway through life, have no idea how to interact with women, then eh, I don't know.
    titan_transcendence likes this.
  11. Gil79

    Gil79 Seize the day

    My uncle was single until 40 something. Never dated. Now he is married and has 2 children.

    A female friend of my mother was 60+when she got her first relationship.

    Theres no skills you need but opening you heart....
  12. titan_transcendence

    titan_transcendence Well-Known Member

    I fell today for one PMO. Effect were kind of mild, due to meds im using. The O felt weak. It was mostly testing, because being worried that these meds will do some lasting damage to my libido. I do not feel bad about my relapse, but think it appropriate moment to really try some abstaining from PMO now on.
    Other than that, I have been in very stable mood. The meds seems to take edge of my emotions. It seems that the constant negative voice have no change to start its endless banter in my head. I like this, even that the effect is artificial. I have been victim of that fuckers voice for so many long years..
    Now its time to let my brain take some rest.
    Gil79 and Saville like this.
  13. titan_transcendence

    titan_transcendence Well-Known Member

    I admit doing some peeking and M'ng today. It was partly due to hangover because I got quite drunk yesterday. Other part is that longing for intimacy, which seems to be out of my reach. How to obtain a mindset that I can live quite content just on my own? Thats the burning question for me. Because, if I will uselessly think wanting intimacy, sex, or any kind of relationship with a woman it just leads to deepening of my depression. Being a beta male makes the task totally fruitless. Im really that bad at finding anyone. So, for the sake of my own sanity, its better to find a way to live without any of that. Just on my own, minding my own business. That the other burning question for me: how to find a motivation to do things, if it all seems so useless and meaningless for me? How to enjoy life just for life's sake, not hoping for anything outside. At times I manage to do that, but then, if I fall the same old trap comparing myself to others, how they seem to find quite effortlessly partners and even if they lose one there are soon another in row.. The Buddhist mindset interests me greatly - by seeing the emptiness of it all makes the wanting things trivial and is the way to find inner peace within.
  14. Lowdo

    Lowdo Well-Known Member

    Sorry to be fussy Titan - but the term 'beta' is a whole lotta bollocks. You're better than that. Every male is unique - some of us are good at some stuff and not at other stuff (I'm good at cooking on the barbeque but sh#t at any kind of DIY) but we are all perfectly masculine in the way that we were made. I'm still cheering you on from my part of the world!

    PS - out of interest the original theory of alpha males (based on a study of wolves) has been pretty much abandoned - even the guy who came up with it agrees that it's not accurate.
  15. Gil79

    Gil79 Seize the day

    You have to create a meaning, a purpose yourself. We all need a project to work on, an aim. Working towards something, like an education certificate, writing a book, or creating a beautiful garden, is what keeps us motivated in general, drags us out of inertia and helps us develop other aspects as well. It helps us live healthy, interact with people and be positive, as that is what we need to work towards that aim. Begin with something simple and more goals will appear out of natural motivation. Dont talk yourself down, youre a unique beautiful human being.
  16. titan_transcendence

    titan_transcendence Well-Known Member

    I used P yesterday again, to finish with 1 PMO. The meds make the O very weak. I can get myself aroused, but need to take the extra effort for that. So much for testing.. I should know for better now.
    I try to abstain from P again. I felt quite bad last time I wrote in here. I think it was partly because of hangover. I have been drinking a lot lately, but at last it has been social drinking.
    Apart from that one plunge to darkness, it has all been pretty stable since the meds take the effect. Im happy to live like this. Maybe I lose the peaks but also can forgo the deeps as well. Somehow, it all still feels like a cheating. Would it have be this easy to stop my suffering? Just by starting to use legal drugs? Also, it seems that much of my P influenced behavior like constant M'ng and my fetishes was because of my anxiety. Now that the emotions are stable, I feel no interest to do anything like that.
    Maybe bad thing is that in this state I do not miss real sex or relationships either. I can just do the things Im used to do, go to gym, be with my cat, read books, write stories, listen music and live quite content in that way. Lets forget women altogether, been nothing but misery in my life so far. :(
    Gil79 likes this.
  17. Gil79

    Gil79 Seize the day

    That doesnt sound bad at all. And if there are things you want to change, you can do it gradually. The last years I have really experienced the power of doing things with small steps. As written in 'the slight edge' those are the things that are 'easy to do' and 'easy not to do'. If you do them, the results on the long term are enourmous. That is about physical health, personal development, social interaction, everything.
  18. MissingSelfCompassion

    MissingSelfCompassion Active Member

    Okay, confession time here. I too am really not comfortable with meds. This seems like toxic thinking to me. Back to that "man up" narrative we've been dealt as men. I also have this idea that most meds dull your senses and don't really cure anything. Again, this idea came from my hardened grandfather who died of cancer because he refused treatment. The old saying in mental health circles goes, "if you had a broken leg, would you refuse a cast?"

    One day at a time @titan_transcendence. The meds are helping with the anxiety and PMO? GREAT! Finding a lady, beating loneliness, let's not ruminate on the future. Just one day at a time. It's good advice for me too. I relapsed big time because I started worrying about future projects and goals. *sigh* I'm here. You're here. We can do this, friend.
    titan_transcendence likes this.
  19. titan_transcendence

    titan_transcendence Well-Known Member

    I did actually quite well today. It was full and busy day, with good social interaction with one friend, and going to gym, one arrangement and so on. The day was totally clean, without any P or self-soothing in wrong ways.

    Thanks Gil and MissingSelfCompassion for rooting me.
    Gil, you wrote wisely. Its not easy to see the slow gradual change of doing better. Its very easy to be impatient and want things to be better right away. You also wrote earlier about finding the Purpose. Thats very essential to one's mental health.

    MissingSelfCompassion, your words struck some right cord in me. You are right, why to put aside these obvious benefits Im now experiencing: silencing the defeating voice in my head and slowly feeling more energetic, not feeling dead-tired anymore every day? You are absolutely right, let the other things wait for tomorrow, for future. Everything in its due time. Maybe its time for me to learn to have little trust towards life, that things will sort out. My worrying about them will not change it any better, at all.
  20. titan_transcendence

    titan_transcendence Well-Known Member

    3 days since last use. It has been mostly smooth sailing for me. The meds kill the urges and otherwise I have some energy to do things. Creativity is still on the hold, though. I have exercised quite goodly, met my friends and read books, took naps with my cat. Good life, in general. It feels good beyond words not to be in constant emotional turmoil and anguish, just being at ease with myself, with my thoughts. :) I hope that one day I can achieve this stage without any chemical help. Because this feels the true me, not the other one who was so desperate, down and hopeless. :(
    Gil79, Saville and Libertad like this.

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