"I think if I can see this in context, i.e. understand fully what's going on, then I can experience this without it overwhelming me and my perception." That, my friend, is the key to many emotional issues. It is very difficult to maintain context/perspective, but that's the key. This is not a new insight. Men have been struggling to reconcile their conscious/unconscious minds, their rational/instinctive natures, for hundreds, if not thousands of years. It's not new, but at the same time it is new. Each human has to go through this process, I am convinced. For some, it is easy and not even noticeable. For others, myself included, it is harder and, at times, requires conscious effort. Onward!
I agree with these sentiments. The great thing about re-booting, but restraint from indulging in porn, is that real women look better and better. I am trying to deal with this by just appreciating the women I meet and enjoying the interaction with them, even if it is tough sometimes to chain the libido down. Acknowledging my desire and living with it, without either stoking it unnecessarily or attempting to quench it with a quick fix of PMO.
What's aboslutley key for me right now is the realisation that there is no way to avoid the discomfort and pain that I experience when I decide not to jack off every time I get the urge to. In fact I need to dive into this suffering and fully taste it and not expect it to go away or to sweeten it or make it better in any way. It is what it is. My tendency to want to make it better is what leads me to PMO - the well-trodden path of least resistance. I'm still getting intrusive thoughts of wanting to go see a hooker for some serious porno sex. When I come out of these rather feverish reveries and realise that it's never going to happen I get a real sense of loss. As the fantasy retreats I can almost hear it whining "What? You mean I'll never get the chance to do this? Not even just once? Awww...really?". Thing is I've been to hookers before in my younger days and know that even if I got a beautiful, friendly, enthusiastic one and got her to do everything I wanted, exactly the way I wanted, it would still not hit the spot and ultimately it would be dissappointing. I know this would not necessarily be the case for everyone, but it just doesn't work for me. I wish it did. But if it did, this forum wouldn't exist, because we'd all be properly satisified by PMO. Therefore, I'm thinking that the direction I need to go in is away from the pursuit of pleasure and towards the things I'm afraid of - discomfort, loss, boredom, anxiety, fear, sadness. And this is not about being masochistic because it's not my intention to purposefully seek pain. It's more like just wanting to be with things as they are. I have a hunch that accepting things as they are, with no expectation of a good outcome will......shit, there I go again, wanting a good outcome! Well, I'm just gonna keep on - this is a good path.
Somehow, in the last 40 years, this expectation has arisen in the US (and, I suspect, in the UK and Western Europe) that we are entitled to lead "happy"--i.e., pleasurable--lives. Of course, the pursuit of pure pleasure is ultimately unsatisfying, as all of us have come to learn to one degree or another. I think the more realistic course is to try to lead good lives, and hope for happy days. In the end, this will probably produce more happiness and genuine pleasure. (But maybe I'm just one of those moral scolds.) The problem is that the pursuit of pleasure is addictive. So, here we are.
Great post Spinergy. You've actually hit the nail squarely on the head and distilled the entire situation into a few lines very nicely. Paulier, keep up the good work, you're an inspiration to me!
Great job Paulier. Your journal really gives me a good look into what its like to be at a month. Im at day 11 and going through waves of all the horrible symptoms you were feeling around those times. Hoping that at a month this will mellow out some.
Some reprogramming going on here as well as rebooting? I'm experiencing urges and am able to have the feeling and then 'see' it quite clearly. I can be curious about it and experience it as separate from the object of desire. This feels unusual and I start to wonder why the feeling necessarily should lead to the action of finding 'relief': is this merely learnt behavior? Yesterday I actually started to look forward to the next sexual urge so I could study it and interrogate it. It's still not the most pleasant thing to have these urges and not follow them - and I still feel that I'm missing out in some way - but something has changed. I seem to be less mesmerised by these feelings and acccept them less at face value. I'm really interested in whether they are what they seem and whether the neural pathways they follow are totally 'natural'.
This is a pretty interesting idea, in my opinion. It was some benefit to me when I was in the midst of battling some urges last night. We need to keep in mind that, despite the horrible toll this has taken on our lives, there's some value in what it can teach us about ourselves.
This thought has fooled me, restricted the progress of my personality and strengthened my insecurity for a long time too...
Urges are pretty constant now - beautiful women everywhere! I'm still staying with the feelings and investigating them. It feels like I've been such an obedient slave my whole life - following neurochemical commands without questioning even once. When I stop and inwardly ask "Hang on a minute, why exactly should I do that?" I get to see things a bit differently (more clearly?). It appears that my urges are a pretty wicked combination of hope and fear. When I see an attractive woman there's a feeling of shock - it's not necessarily particularly pleasant, more like a call to attention. Then the desire kicks in, which feels like a desperate longing. This is the thing I'm beginning to question - are the neural pathways that are so strongly imprinted here just learnt behavior? Is it software or hardware? If I mentally isolate the feeling it doesn't seem to really have any 'direction' - it just kind of sits there doing its thing. It seems like the behaviour that's always followed this (what I've always done) is not necessarily 'natural' - i.e. definite, unquestionable or certain. My use of porn - particularly in the last few years - seems to have been more about getting rid of the discomfort of this feeling than anything else. Someone else (can't remember who, sorry) wrote in their journal that PMO made them less of a grown man in search of sexual fulfillment than a junkie looking for a fix. This seems to me to indicate some fear of sexual feelings - I must relieve or get rid of them at all costs, or...what? Some of the porn I've seen seems to reflect this fear of (women's) sexual power - abusive, aggressive, demeaning. But, strangely, there also seems to be some hope that needs can somehow be fulfilled in this way. I'm going to keep going along this path, even though I fear losing my old ways to sexual excitement and release - that delicious, illicit, naughty pleasure.
Good work, good insights! I personally don't put much stock in the the psychological stuff about fear and women's power--it's all about dopamine to me. At least, that's the framework that is most helpful to me for dealing with this issue. The fact that you have the ability to investigate feelings instead of just being driven by them is fantastic. Stay strong!
Yeah, I know what you mean about the psychological stuff - I was even thinking today that Freud may have been right about some things! Sometimes that stuff is useful for building a narrative, but each story is pretty individual so generalisations can be annoying. Anyway, I was well and truly bludgeoned out of my complacency this morning (have I been sounding smug lately?). I had a sex dream about getting a BJ from an average looking woman (progress!). I came in the dream, but not in reality. When I woke up I was overwhelmed by thoughts of going to a hooker and came very close to getting out my porn computer and searching sites. The thought of doing this gave me such a massive dopamine rush and I knew that if I did this I would be lost. I thought of what all you guys who read this might think and how failure is no good for anyone here (thinking about Psychosis' recent 'dark night' and how he resisted). I even had a flashing thought that I might be able to MO and not mention it here, but that would mean I'd have to stop visiting here as it only works if I'm 100% honest. So, I stopped touching myself ("hands above the bedclothes!") and just rode it out. Rather pleasingly I had a raging hard-on (not morning wood) without any sort of physical stimulation, which is something that hasn't happened for, well, I don't know how long. Although I'm pleased that I got through it (and it was the closest call I've had since I started this), I realised that if a dream can give this sort of 'chaser' effect then any sort of sexual activity at the moment is likely to lead to relapse. So no M or O for me, and no hookers (that's right you fuckhead - NO HOOKERS! Get me? Good.) Again, thanks to everyone who posts on here. If this site hadn't existed today would have turned out very differently. One of the crucial thoughts for me in the midst of my dopamine rush/desire was 'I can't tell them I lapsed'. Remembering how other guys have resisted was also really useful.
I was going to comment on this idea yesterday, but was having problems expressing myself. I wanted to make the point that I sometimes get the idea, accompanying an urge, that I can just rub one out real quick and not tell the forum about it--and just carry on with my count, no one the wiser. Obviously, doing so would utterly defeat the purpose of an anonymous message board, let alone the fact that you are lying to real people. We are all doing this for our own reasons, but using the people on the forum as a tool of accountability is useful, I think. Since we're all trying to help each other, we have a duty to be truthful with each other, otherwise we're doing more damage than we are helping. This is all obvious, of course, but I thought I would throw it out there since it's something I've been dealign with too.
Shit. Fuck. Bollocks. Relapsed last night. I feel stupid, ridiculous and ashamed. I was quite drunk after friends came round and stayed up on my own with the computer. I ended up looking at hooker websites and then masturbating to a short clip of my usual stuff. Orgasm was disappointing. It was really not worth it at all and only proved all the things I already know about PMO. This is probably the only good thing about it - confirmation that PMO is only an addiction. It reminds me of the times when I've given up tobacco and then smoked a cigarette. It was never satisfying because the only satisfaction to be had from smoking is from relieving nicotine addiction and if you have no nicotine in your system you don't get any relief. I feel like an idiotic kid who just has to touch the fire even though he really knows it's going to burn. Lessons: (1) computer + drink = very high risk situation; (2) Don't rub your dick. Ever. Day one. That's the last time I'm ever gonna say that.
It happens, friend. Face it, learn from it, move on stronger. This is not an easy thing to beat, but we can do it. Regards, - H
Thanks guys. I don't feel I'm being hard on myself. I did 37 days and that's not bad. It's just the rather pathetic manner of the relapse - I could see what I was doing and knew it was stupid/pointless, but just kept on. It was almost certainly the booze that tipped the balance, but that's my responsibility too. Anyway, onward - I'll learn from this.
That sucks man, I feel for you. This was your first relapse since beginning a proper reboot, right? There's certainly a benefit to it, especially if you avoid the chaser effect. The main one being that now your body knows this: That is exactly what I had, and it is an immensely comforting thought when I feel the urge. The pleasure I had was an empty one. Compare that with hosea's description of his orgasm while having real sex with a real woman. Also, I'm pleased that you noticed how much it's like having a cigarette after you've given it up, because I had that exact thought after I relapsed as well! Good luck.
If you get the urge to masturbate try and do it without porn, ideally dont masturbate at all during a reboot but avoid porn if you do. K9 with a password I cant remember has really helped me. Im sure I would have relapsed at least once without it.
Sad to see that you relapsed, but at least you got a reinforce and reminder that the orgasms that you get from PMO are definitely not worth it. I will keep this in mind the next time I get an urge.
