33 YO Returning Here

Discussion in 'Ages 30-39' started by gavney, Apr 9, 2018.

  1. gavney

    gavney Active Member

    Well, I think there is a little bit of a difference. I didn't feel any bond until seeing the scan, whereas she was feeling it from earlier on. I was excited, but not a bond per se.
    However, I take you're point, Im not giving myself the permission to be sad in a way, which isn't right. I should allow myself to feel however I feel.
    I feel sad particularly when I see my siblings with their kids (15 nieces and nephews in total!). I do look forward to having our own some day, just not going to be as soon as we'd hoped.

    I want to get away on a short holiday with GF in January / February. It's at least something we can do that we wouldn't have been able to do with the pregnancy.
    She's resistant at present, but hopefully her spirits will have raised in the next few weeks.
  2. gavney

    gavney Active Member

    Found this quote on Wikipedia page about "Lust" from Melvin Tinker. I'm not religious myself, but I think it sums up a good part of the problem with Lusting after women. It's very easy to justify any actions, as you can rationalise that no-one is being hurt. But really the damage is happening within the person who is lusting.
    He also points to all human sexuality being fundamentally "disordered", and I'm tending to agree with him. We do have to live in a society where we can't just go around having sex with who we please. I think Internet Porn is wreaking havoc within many Men's minds and allowing the "disordered sexuality" to run free, while the real world is taking a back seat.
    I didn't want to have sex with my fiancee this week when she wanted to, as I had already PMO'd earlier that day and the previous night. PMO is taking the easy option It puts distance between her and me. I'm having sex with insanely sexy women in my head, searching for the perfect girl, with the perfect position, who will do anything to me that I want. But .... it's not real, and it's damaging to a relationship that is real

    Melvin Tinker "But the maximum application method says, adultery doesn't just happen when you have sexual intercourse, it happens in your heart. However, the mistranslation is unfortunate at this point. In the Greek it says, ' If anyone looks upon a woman in order to lust, has already committed adultery with her in his heart.' That is an important distinction. I need to point that out because sexual arousal, sexual interest, sexual attraction are essential for the continuation of the human species... It is about looking in order to lust. The striptease show, the dirty movie or video, the internet pornography. That is becoming a real problem... And if this is a difficulty for you, then do talk to someone about it in confidence. You see, it is the intending to look in order to have that arousal that Jesus has in his sights."[14]

    I think that last line speaks loudest to me in particular. I'm usually not looking at P because I'm aroused and want something to accompany my arousal. I'm searching for the arousal in order to fill the hole. What's causing that "hole" changes from day to day. Sometimes it's boredom, sometimes loneliness, sometimes it's frustration with my fiancee, stress from work etc.. etc.
  3. gavney

    gavney Active Member

    I've been back to my PMOing in the last couple of weeks, though not yesterday and today. Again it's a form of escape I think, and also due to a lack of satisfaction with my relationship. I've realised today what's bothering me, is related to having kids.
    Fiancee is obsessed with having kids. She broke down in tears again yesterday when she heard about a friend who is pregnant. I couldn't but console her, but when I was on my own this morning, I realised that this pregnancy obsession is really killing any romance between us. It's like it's turned me into an object in her eyes, just a sperm donor.

    I also want to have children, but I don't have the same urgency that she does. The sex we're having is just 5 days in a row, mechanical planned and really unsexy. The thing is that then outside of that part of the month, I have no desire to have sex with her. I don't know if it's because I'm harbouring resentment over being treated like a sperm donor, or if it's because the conception sex is just turning me off her.

    At the same time, maybe thats just what we have to do to get pregnant. However, at the moment, I can't help but feel it's harming our relationship.
  4. gavney

    gavney Active Member

    Also, we're deciding whether or not to go on holidays at end of February, but she wants to wait and see if she's pregnant. I think we should just go away either way. Everything revolves around the pregnancy.

    I heard a guy on the radio yesterday discussing something similar with his partner. They were getting IVF treatments, but his partner was just so obsessed with it, that nothing else mattered. It got so bad that they broke up for a while.

    It worries me because what will happen if we do have kids? Does my fiancee then completely disregard us and our relationship? I understand that having kids will of course impact the relationship significantly, but I think it's necessary to have a life also....maybe that's naive..!
  5. Gil79

    Gil79 Seize the day

    This post could have been written by me 5 years ago. I have been in a very similar situation. As you know, we also had a miscarriage and after that my wife also became very fixated and rushed in getting pregnant again. Like your fiancee she got very emotional every time someone she knew got pregnant. She even got really nasty to a colleague of hers that got pregnant in that period. The 'we have to do it now' days are very familiar. Eventually it took us 3 years to get pregnant and we went through everything: despair, fights and times we were about to just give up. But what also started playing a role, and later more than in the beginning, is humor. In the end I think we got used to the situation somehow, and we were like 'ok, we have to do it again' and with humor we were able to do that. Then at a certain point we moved to another house, we didn't even think about getting pregnant at that time, and surprise surprise, we got pregnant. I really believe that she was withholding herself to get pregnant somehow. Just to stressed about it. But there's nothing you can really do about that. I took her to a mindfulness course, I tried to make her sport more, going on trips, etc. But it is a hormonal thing and you just have to let it be, otherwise it will affect your relationship. Clearly that holds for blaming her. But that doesn't mean that you have to discard your feeling about this. It is important is that you take your own feelings seriously. This whole thing really doesn't mean that you're just a sperm donor to her, but your fiancee is a slave of her hormones right now. She's hijacked into this process by her body.

    Basically you'll have to find a way to deal with this for yourself in which you accept that she's in this state of mind, but in which there's also room for you to express your feelings to her and take a break from it if you need one. I think that this really touches there where there's such a big difference between men and women that you'll just have to accept from eachother that you're different. I found it really helpful in that period (and still) to read 'the way of the superior man' by David Deida and 'No more mister nice guy'. Not that I am saying that you're a nice guy, but because those books have such good tips on how to deal with (emotional, hormonally affected) women. Please stop (P)MO-ing. I completely understand how this situation makes you want go there, but it makes things far worse. When you stop (P)MO-ing, you'll feel more masculin and your relationship gets more polar, more masculin-feminin. And that is really what you need right now. It will give you the personal power to show your boundaries, which is good for you and for your relationship. A healthy body in a healthy mind. Clearly it will also increase your libido, which eh.... well... you know, haha.

    Something more practical: in the fertile period, we typically had sex every other day. It may be more effective, as sperm cells can survive in her body for 48h, and withholding sperm a day really increases your sperm count. Another upside is that you don't have to do it 5 days in a row.

    Indeed it is crazy to postpone your holidays for a possible pregnancy. At a certain moment we were also thinking of the weirdest possible causes why we were not getting pregnant, but when you're pregnant you can just travel. There's really no increased risk of loosing the pregnancy because of that. Maybe you should just take a lead in this. Are you going to a gynaecologist already? Maybe she needs to hear these things from a professional. It seems that a holiday would be good for the both of you.

    And when you have kids, you'll forget all of this immediately. Becoming a father is the most beautiful thing that happened to me in my life. At times it is really tough, especially now with 3, and it does affect us as a couple, but all of that is just temporarily. There will be busy times and there will be times that you have time for yourself again. But also here it holds that you have to show your boundaries and you have to show when you need time for yourself.

    I wish you a lot of strength, Gavney! As I said, things will change and then all these negative feelings, both yours and hers, will just be gone.
    gavney likes this.
  6. gavney

    gavney Active Member

    Thanks so much Gil79. You've no idea how much sharing your story helps. Yesterday there was a radio discussion about miscarriages. All of the callers were women. One woman did mention how her partner was affected by it and by how no-one comforted him. So, while it's unfortunately a under-discussed topic in general, it's even more so among men. There were also people calling in about how their relationship fell apart of multiple miscarriages.

    So, an update today. She did a pregnancy test and unfortunately it didn't happen this time. She cried straight away, and in a way I was glad that her reaction was immediate, as previously the tears didn't come until a later, seemingly random time.
    I felt some sadness inside me, but again it just doesn't affect me the same. I consoled her for a while, but while previously I would have stayed home with her, this time, I told her I had to go to work, but that I'd like her to come in with me to help. She did, and we had lunch. We discussed having a holiday at the end of March. I'm glad she's open to that, but at the same time, I do feel a sadness that we're "just getting on with life". However, ovulation only happens during a short window every month, so we do have to just get on with life. If we do become parents some day, we'll have to learn to have a life outside kids also, so it's good practice.

    In my mind, having tried to conceive 4 times, and succeeding once isn't a bad return. It's just unfortunate that the one ended in miscarriage, which is sad but also slows us down by 6 months (3 months of pregnancy and another pregnancy before we could try again).

    Yes, I said this to her, and she was aware of it, but we still ended up having 5 days (maybe it was 4) in a row. I also feel that my load is alot less if we're having sex on consecutive days. I think it also just makes me feel depressed when we're having more sex than we naturally would. I should communicate this to her better next time and be firmer about it. She seems more open to it now, possibly because the every day approach hasn't brought much success.

    No, we haven't but she has been to her GP and she had consultations with doctors as a result of the miscarriage. General consensus was that the miscarriage cause is unknown, probably just random, and that as we've conceived 1/ 4 attempts there's nothing really to worry about yet. I should mention that fiancee is a nurse, and has lots of friends who've had miscarriages, so she's well exposed to information and know fully how little can be done. Yet, I feel it's just not sinking in with her.
    She's frustrated that she's doing everything right, exercising regularly, avoided alcohol, doesn't smoke, eats very healthy etc... and she has friends who are unhealthy, smokers etc.. who have successful pregnancies first time...

    Re: PMO, yeah absolutely you're right. I haven't PMO'd in a few days and I woke up in the middle of the night, craving a PMO. Thankfully I didn't
    Also, something I feel guilty about is that I was PMO'ing the few days our most recent conception attempt. I don't know if this harms our chances, but it surely doesn't help. I need to avoid that this month to give us the best chance.

    I feel that it would/ will be the same for me. I adore my nieces and nephews and feel like I want (possibly even need) some kids in my own life. When we were pregnant, aspects of my life even started to take on a new meaning e.g. wanting my business to succeed so that I could be a good provider, staying healthy so I could be around for as long as possible etc.. There's plenty of things about my life that I enjoy right now, but one thing I lack is a sense of meaning.. and I think being a father will help that. I do have my fears though, what if I don't love our child, what if it's too much for me, what if I'm a bad father etc...

    Thanks again for posting. I've read No more Mr Nice Guy before but might have another read now as it's been a few years..
    Gil79 likes this.
  7. gavney

    gavney Active Member

    7 days no PMO. Feeling pretty good, more energy than previously
    rlb and Gil79 like this.
  8. gavney

    gavney Active Member

    11 days no PMO.

    Feeling pretty good this week. Partly due to no PMO, have more energy. However, I have flatlined a bit, had no sexual desire for fiancee, which I feel bad about as we're coming into her cycle.
    However, while I don't want to have sex at present, I definitely can. I need to take the lead on this, as getting "nagged" into it will end up putting me off. We both want to be parents so I should
    take more of the responsibility to initiate. Going to get a nice dinner made tonight for when she gets home, as she'll be working late. I'll leave work early and get to gym, which will put me in a better headspace for romance!
    Need to be more proactive about this.

    We're going on holiday at end of February which is a great result!
    Also, did some renovations at home, new carpet etc.. and have settled into new premises in work, so lots of things coming together at the moment, onward and upward!
  9. forlorn

    forlorn Well-Known Member

    On Saturday night my wife had a party to attend and I dropped her off at the venue. As I was driving home I realised I had a window of opportunity and felt a brief rush of excitement about what I could do in the next few hours. Various thoughts flooded my mind - I could go to a lapdancing club. I could go home and look at porn clips. Thankfully I managed to put those self destructive thoughts aside and instead I spent the evening watching one of my favourite TV shows and having a little drink. What I'm starting to realise is that we need to instill a sense of self pride - that means we have to do the right thing even when nobody is watching.
    gavney likes this.
  10. gavney

    gavney Active Member

    So, was doing well with no PMO for a while, got to about 13 or 14 days no PMO, then started "peeking" at P for a few days. I made sure not to give in to cravings coming up to "conception week" though, as I'd have felt guilty if I did.
    However, shortly after that I caved, and have PMO'd a few times since.
    So, resetting the counter to 0 today.
  11. forlorn

    forlorn Well-Known Member

    How's your week been? Still PMO-ing?

    One of the things I find useful in recovery is to work on overcoming shame. You've done some shitty stuff in your past and made bad decisions (so have I). But you need to find the strength to forgive yourself. The past is the past, all you can do now is work towards a better future. You have a job, a fiancée and a upcoming holiday to look forward to - lots to be excited about.
    gavney and Gil79 like this.
  12. gavney

    gavney Active Member

    So, hacent PMOd since last post. Felt good couple days straight after but kind of feeling withdrawal symptoms today. Also, fiancee has been in bad form last couple of days. I suspected its due to not being pregnant and having to visit her younger sister and her newborn this weekend( her 2nd child).

    Shes been pretending nothings wrong but this morning I coaxed it out of her. I understand why she doesnt want to open up, as its tiring to keep opening up about the same problem but really i don't mind hearing about it. I prefer that than getting silence.

    Shes also visiting some friends today, 2 of them recently pregnant with their first, so id say thats playing on her mind also.

    Anyway, the silence was tempting me to PMO so i need to let her know that im happy to listen even if its repetitious
  13. gavney

    gavney Active Member

    I dont think im struggling with shame at the moment but i have in the past.

    You're right though, lots to be happy about at the moment not perfect but i guess life never is
  14. gavney

    gavney Active Member

    5 days no PMO. however, ive been lying to myself last couple of times about looking at "sexy pics" or videos on google, ie on ones that aren't P, not nude but still are intended to arouse. It never directly leads to MO and it doesn't have the same pull on me as P, but i think it activates the same parts of my brain as P and can set me back
    So, from now on, if i do purposely seek out sexy pics im resetting my counter. However, if theres a sexy scene in a movie or sth, i won't punish myself or fast forward as i think i need to be able to tolerate a certain amount of what the world throws at me without PMOing
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2020
  15. gavney

    gavney Active Member

    Also, i had a full discussion with fiancee, she was as i suspected, sad about not being pregnant and visiting her sister. She cried in the car on the way to visit. I let her know she can always talk to me about that even if it seems repetitious.

    Anyway, on the drive home we had an unrelated fight about me making an insensitive joke. I responded by bringing up her tendency to lightly mock me in front of her family. Thats something thats bothered me for a while so im glad we got it out in the open. I think in the end it was a good argument for both of us, we both learned something.
  16. gavney

    gavney Active Member

    Something i noticed this week is that i feel particularly lustful in the morning, almost as soon as i wake up.

    Im also not a morning person so I tend to take a while to get going in the morning, which can lead temptation to PMO while lying in bed. Being self employed means i generally am not under pressure to get into work early, but i generally get up around 9am.

    So, im gonna make more of an effort to get up asap, make myself a nice coffee straight away, set an alarm, do a few kettlebell swings, go out to balcony to get fresh air.
  17. gavney

    gavney Active Member

    Day 6 no PMO

    Felt fairly lethargic today, probably flatline.

    I'm considering downloading a P blocker for my phone. However, I can feel the hesitation in me for the following reasons:

    1. I'd lose the safety net of P. It's always something to fall back on if I'm feeling low and it's been a part of my life for so long (15 years really, with the longest absence being about 30 days)
    2. Living a life without P and seeing the benefits would shine a light on how much of my 20s were hampered by it, how much P affected my career, relationships and aspirations.
    3. Worried someone would find the blocker on my phone and make fun of me (this happened with a couple of friends in my early 20s, when I tried K9 blocker)
    4. Concerned I'll become reliant on it to cure my addiction, instead of just using discipline.

    re: 1 & 2. I just have to accept that. P has reduced the quality of my life significantly, but it wasn't the only factor. Plus, I have plenty going right in my life at present.
    When I first started MOing as a teen, I remember being afraid of turning into a trenchcoat wearing "pervert", hanging around adult cinemas. Little did I know that the internet was going to change
    everything and give me even worse issues.

    Re: 3. That's unlikely , unless it was my fiancee, and if that happens then so be it, I'm able to deal with it.
    Re: 4. I have yet to get past 30 days no PMO (and that was a long time ago), and I've been trying for years. I've set a low bar for myself with quitting. I need to visualize a life completely without P, and stop assuming it will always
    be a part of my life. I can remove it completely, but I may need the help of technology. Just as technology has enhanced the problem, it should also be able to solve it.
    I take inspiration from reading others on here and their achievements of making it to 150 days and more...

    Hope everyone is doing well.
  18. gavney

    gavney Active Member

    Yes, you're spot on, which is why I was reluctant. I did install one just now, but then I found myself "testing it". Bizarrely, just typing in the address of my favourite P site got me excited! So, I tried another site, and another. I know that if I kept "testing" I'd eventually get so excited that I'd find a way around the blocker. So, I have to put the blocker out of my head, discipline myself first and foremost. The blocker has to be just a safety net, and it's probably the least important tool I have in quitting.
  19. gavney

    gavney Active Member

    Day 8 no PMO.

    Woke up in ok mood but with one of those painful morning glories, which I tend to get around this time in a reboot. They're not enjoyable, don't feel any arousal, just a bit sore and annoying!
    If my GF wasn't around I might have been tempted to PMO to get rid of it, so that's something I need to be wary of.
    Looking forward to actually wanting to have sex again, going on holidays end of next week, so hopefully in time for that!
    Living likes this.
  20. gavney

    gavney Active Member

    Day 10 no PMO

    Fiancee was in bad form last night due to period. What annoys me about this is that she seems to think that I'm the one irritating her, not that she's irritated by cramps etc..
    I can clearly see it's not me, as it's the same every month, no matter what I do
    Anyway, all I can do is try to be on my best behaviour at this time, so she can't blame me.
    This tempted me to PMO as "revenge" last night, but it's so silly, I am the one who suffers most from PMO. And I just have to accept that I don't know what having a bad period is like. I've tried to be comforting, but she's
    not the easiest person to comfort, she gets quite demanding and snappy, so I'll just leave her be and let the storm pass....
    She was in better form this morning and was a little bit apologetic. And I can't complain too much she made me a nice dinner last night, which I also just had for lunch, very tasty!

    Anyway, just glad I'm learning not to PMO at this sort of time.
    Didn't sleep well the night before last night, but slept very well last night. Played football last night, and I think the exercise helps with sleep.
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