33 YO Returning Here

Discussion in 'Ages 30-39' started by gavney, Apr 9, 2018.

  1. gavney

    gavney Active Member

    Haven't looked at P or MO since Sunday, which is my longest "streak" in a while.

    Working mostly from home, GF in work, which makes it very tempting to look at P. However, just going to try make it through to the weekend, then have some plans ready as GF is going away with friends, so going to be a very tempting weekend.
  2. Gil79

    Gil79 Seize the day

    There is absolutely no reason why this would be less sad or less of a loss for you than for your GF. It is so important to give room to our feelings, especially when it is about something like this. Emotions will find there way out somehow, and in this case talking and crying together is the most healthy and effective way.
  3. gavney

    gavney Active Member

    Well, I think there is a little bit of a difference. I didn't feel any bond until seeing the scan, whereas she was feeling it from earlier on. I was excited, but not a bond per se.
    However, I take you're point, Im not giving myself the permission to be sad in a way, which isn't right. I should allow myself to feel however I feel.
    I feel sad particularly when I see my siblings with their kids (15 nieces and nephews in total!). I do look forward to having our own some day, just not going to be as soon as we'd hoped.

    I want to get away on a short holiday with GF in January / February. It's at least something we can do that we wouldn't have been able to do with the pregnancy.
    She's resistant at present, but hopefully her spirits will have raised in the next few weeks.
  4. gavney

    gavney Active Member

    Found this quote on Wikipedia page about "Lust" from Melvin Tinker. I'm not religious myself, but I think it sums up a good part of the problem with Lusting after women. It's very easy to justify any actions, as you can rationalise that no-one is being hurt. But really the damage is happening within the person who is lusting.
    He also points to all human sexuality being fundamentally "disordered", and I'm tending to agree with him. We do have to live in a society where we can't just go around having sex with who we please. I think Internet Porn is wreaking havoc within many Men's minds and allowing the "disordered sexuality" to run free, while the real world is taking a back seat.
    I didn't want to have sex with my fiancee this week when she wanted to, as I had already PMO'd earlier that day and the previous night. PMO is taking the easy option It puts distance between her and me. I'm having sex with insanely sexy women in my head, searching for the perfect girl, with the perfect position, who will do anything to me that I want. But .... it's not real, and it's damaging to a relationship that is real

    Melvin Tinker "But the maximum application method says, adultery doesn't just happen when you have sexual intercourse, it happens in your heart. However, the mistranslation is unfortunate at this point. In the Greek it says, ' If anyone looks upon a woman in order to lust, has already committed adultery with her in his heart.' That is an important distinction. I need to point that out because sexual arousal, sexual interest, sexual attraction are essential for the continuation of the human species... It is about looking in order to lust. The striptease show, the dirty movie or video, the internet pornography. That is becoming a real problem... And if this is a difficulty for you, then do talk to someone about it in confidence. You see, it is the intending to look in order to have that arousal that Jesus has in his sights."[14]

    I think that last line speaks loudest to me in particular. I'm usually not looking at P because I'm aroused and want something to accompany my arousal. I'm searching for the arousal in order to fill the hole. What's causing that "hole" changes from day to day. Sometimes it's boredom, sometimes loneliness, sometimes it's frustration with my fiancee, stress from work etc.. etc.
  5. gavney

    gavney Active Member

    I've been back to my PMOing in the last couple of weeks, though not yesterday and today. Again it's a form of escape I think, and also due to a lack of satisfaction with my relationship. I've realised today what's bothering me, is related to having kids.
    Fiancee is obsessed with having kids. She broke down in tears again yesterday when she heard about a friend who is pregnant. I couldn't but console her, but when I was on my own this morning, I realised that this pregnancy obsession is really killing any romance between us. It's like it's turned me into an object in her eyes, just a sperm donor.

    I also want to have children, but I don't have the same urgency that she does. The sex we're having is just 5 days in a row, mechanical planned and really unsexy. The thing is that then outside of that part of the month, I have no desire to have sex with her. I don't know if it's because I'm harbouring resentment over being treated like a sperm donor, or if it's because the conception sex is just turning me off her.

    At the same time, maybe thats just what we have to do to get pregnant. However, at the moment, I can't help but feel it's harming our relationship.
  6. gavney

    gavney Active Member

    Also, we're deciding whether or not to go on holidays at end of February, but she wants to wait and see if she's pregnant. I think we should just go away either way. Everything revolves around the pregnancy.

    I heard a guy on the radio yesterday discussing something similar with his partner. They were getting IVF treatments, but his partner was just so obsessed with it, that nothing else mattered. It got so bad that they broke up for a while.

    It worries me because what will happen if we do have kids? Does my fiancee then completely disregard us and our relationship? I understand that having kids will of course impact the relationship significantly, but I think it's necessary to have a life also....maybe that's naive..!
  7. Gil79

    Gil79 Seize the day

    This post could have been written by me 5 years ago. I have been in a very similar situation. As you know, we also had a miscarriage and after that my wife also became very fixated and rushed in getting pregnant again. Like your fiancee she got very emotional every time someone she knew got pregnant. She even got really nasty to a colleague of hers that got pregnant in that period. The 'we have to do it now' days are very familiar. Eventually it took us 3 years to get pregnant and we went through everything: despair, fights and times we were about to just give up. But what also started playing a role, and later more than in the beginning, is humor. In the end I think we got used to the situation somehow, and we were like 'ok, we have to do it again' and with humor we were able to do that. Then at a certain point we moved to another house, we didn't even think about getting pregnant at that time, and surprise surprise, we got pregnant. I really believe that she was withholding herself to get pregnant somehow. Just to stressed about it. But there's nothing you can really do about that. I took her to a mindfulness course, I tried to make her sport more, going on trips, etc. But it is a hormonal thing and you just have to let it be, otherwise it will affect your relationship. Clearly that holds for blaming her. But that doesn't mean that you have to discard your feeling about this. It is important is that you take your own feelings seriously. This whole thing really doesn't mean that you're just a sperm donor to her, but your fiancee is a slave of her hormones right now. She's hijacked into this process by her body.

    Basically you'll have to find a way to deal with this for yourself in which you accept that she's in this state of mind, but in which there's also room for you to express your feelings to her and take a break from it if you need one. I think that this really touches there where there's such a big difference between men and women that you'll just have to accept from eachother that you're different. I found it really helpful in that period (and still) to read 'the way of the superior man' by David Deida and 'No more mister nice guy'. Not that I am saying that you're a nice guy, but because those books have such good tips on how to deal with (emotional, hormonally affected) women. Please stop (P)MO-ing. I completely understand how this situation makes you want go there, but it makes things far worse. When you stop (P)MO-ing, you'll feel more masculin and your relationship gets more polar, more masculin-feminin. And that is really what you need right now. It will give you the personal power to show your boundaries, which is good for you and for your relationship. A healthy body in a healthy mind. Clearly it will also increase your libido, which eh.... well... you know, haha.

    Something more practical: in the fertile period, we typically had sex every other day. It may be more effective, as sperm cells can survive in her body for 48h, and withholding sperm a day really increases your sperm count. Another upside is that you don't have to do it 5 days in a row.

    Indeed it is crazy to postpone your holidays for a possible pregnancy. At a certain moment we were also thinking of the weirdest possible causes why we were not getting pregnant, but when you're pregnant you can just travel. There's really no increased risk of loosing the pregnancy because of that. Maybe you should just take a lead in this. Are you going to a gynaecologist already? Maybe she needs to hear these things from a professional. It seems that a holiday would be good for the both of you.

    And when you have kids, you'll forget all of this immediately. Becoming a father is the most beautiful thing that happened to me in my life. At times it is really tough, especially now with 3, and it does affect us as a couple, but all of that is just temporarily. There will be busy times and there will be times that you have time for yourself again. But also here it holds that you have to show your boundaries and you have to show when you need time for yourself.

    I wish you a lot of strength, Gavney! As I said, things will change and then all these negative feelings, both yours and hers, will just be gone.
    gavney likes this.
  8. gavney

    gavney Active Member

    Thanks so much Gil79. You've no idea how much sharing your story helps. Yesterday there was a radio discussion about miscarriages. All of the callers were women. One woman did mention how her partner was affected by it and by how no-one comforted him. So, while it's unfortunately a under-discussed topic in general, it's even more so among men. There were also people calling in about how their relationship fell apart of multiple miscarriages.

    So, an update today. She did a pregnancy test and unfortunately it didn't happen this time. She cried straight away, and in a way I was glad that her reaction was immediate, as previously the tears didn't come until a later, seemingly random time.
    I felt some sadness inside me, but again it just doesn't affect me the same. I consoled her for a while, but while previously I would have stayed home with her, this time, I told her I had to go to work, but that I'd like her to come in with me to help. She did, and we had lunch. We discussed having a holiday at the end of March. I'm glad she's open to that, but at the same time, I do feel a sadness that we're "just getting on with life". However, ovulation only happens during a short window every month, so we do have to just get on with life. If we do become parents some day, we'll have to learn to have a life outside kids also, so it's good practice.

    In my mind, having tried to conceive 4 times, and succeeding once isn't a bad return. It's just unfortunate that the one ended in miscarriage, which is sad but also slows us down by 6 months (3 months of pregnancy and another pregnancy before we could try again).

    Yes, I said this to her, and she was aware of it, but we still ended up having 5 days (maybe it was 4) in a row. I also feel that my load is alot less if we're having sex on consecutive days. I think it also just makes me feel depressed when we're having more sex than we naturally would. I should communicate this to her better next time and be firmer about it. She seems more open to it now, possibly because the every day approach hasn't brought much success.

    No, we haven't but she has been to her GP and she had consultations with doctors as a result of the miscarriage. General consensus was that the miscarriage cause is unknown, probably just random, and that as we've conceived 1/ 4 attempts there's nothing really to worry about yet. I should mention that fiancee is a nurse, and has lots of friends who've had miscarriages, so she's well exposed to information and know fully how little can be done. Yet, I feel it's just not sinking in with her.
    She's frustrated that she's doing everything right, exercising regularly, avoided alcohol, doesn't smoke, eats very healthy etc... and she has friends who are unhealthy, smokers etc.. who have successful pregnancies first time...

    Re: PMO, yeah absolutely you're right. I haven't PMO'd in a few days and I woke up in the middle of the night, craving a PMO. Thankfully I didn't
    Also, something I feel guilty about is that I was PMO'ing the few days our most recent conception attempt. I don't know if this harms our chances, but it surely doesn't help. I need to avoid that this month to give us the best chance.

    I feel that it would/ will be the same for me. I adore my nieces and nephews and feel like I want (possibly even need) some kids in my own life. When we were pregnant, aspects of my life even started to take on a new meaning e.g. wanting my business to succeed so that I could be a good provider, staying healthy so I could be around for as long as possible etc.. There's plenty of things about my life that I enjoy right now, but one thing I lack is a sense of meaning.. and I think being a father will help that. I do have my fears though, what if I don't love our child, what if it's too much for me, what if I'm a bad father etc...

    Thanks again for posting. I've read No more Mr Nice Guy before but might have another read now as it's been a few years..
    Gil79 likes this.
  9. gavney

    gavney Active Member

    7 days no PMO. Feeling pretty good, more energy than previously
    rlb and Gil79 like this.
  10. gavney

    gavney Active Member

    11 days no PMO.

    Feeling pretty good this week. Partly due to no PMO, have more energy. However, I have flatlined a bit, had no sexual desire for fiancee, which I feel bad about as we're coming into her cycle.
    However, while I don't want to have sex at present, I definitely can. I need to take the lead on this, as getting "nagged" into it will end up putting me off. We both want to be parents so I should
    take more of the responsibility to initiate. Going to get a nice dinner made tonight for when she gets home, as she'll be working late. I'll leave work early and get to gym, which will put me in a better headspace for romance!
    Need to be more proactive about this.

    We're going on holiday at end of February which is a great result!
    Also, did some renovations at home, new carpet etc.. and have settled into new premises in work, so lots of things coming together at the moment, onward and upward!

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